UHF Transmitter & Receiver

surri

Joined Mar 11, 2019
11
Perhaps a solution would be to attach a little box to your drums with 16 connectors input and get a suitable isolated cable with 16 wires? Some amplification might be needed depending on distance and signal output from the drums.One cable is at least better than 16 :D
Maybe that would be the most "bang for the buck solution"?
 

AnalogKid

Joined Aug 1, 2013
8,487
I play electronic drums once a year at the family reunion. Weird little critters after my 9-piece Tama kit, like playing all practice pads. But I digress ...

I don't think I understand the question. Presumably the kit came with a controller and one cable per pad. At the kit you are stuck with the 15 cables. If the only issue with them is extending that wad so the controller can be farther away from the kit, the answer is to keep the controller near the kit and "extend" the controller *output* with a stereo FM transmitter kit. Crystal controlled ones are $5-10, and any FM radio can be the receiver.

Or did I miss something?

ak
 

Yaakov

Joined Jan 27, 2019
1,612
I play electronic drums once a year at the family reunion. Weird little critters after my 9-piece Tama kit, like playing all practice pads. But I digress ...

I don't think I understand the question. Presumably the kit came with a controller and one cable per pad. At the kit you are stuck with the 15 cables. If the only issue with them is extending that wad so the controller can be farther away from the kit, the answer is to keep the controller near the kit and "extend" the controller *output* with a stereo FM transmitter kit. Crystal controlled ones are $5-10, and any FM radio can be the receiver.

Or did I miss something?

ak
It is my understanding that the proliferation of cables is the problem and the TS wants to each pad to be able to standalone, wirelessly to simplify setup and strike, and transport.
 

AnalogKid

Joined Aug 1, 2013
8,487
If you quantize each trigger signal to 7 bits, and tack on a 4 bit address, that's 11 bits per sample. Times 16 sources is 176 bits per "frame" If you want 1 ms temporal quantizing error (latency caused by the time delay between successive samples), that's 176,000 bits per second of a single channel serial data stream. You can reduce the effective signal bandwidth by at least 2:1 with NRZ, Manchester, or some other coding scheme. The hardware on each end isn't conceptually difficult, but it is easier if all 16 trigger signals come to one pile of electronics. Bit isn't that what you are trying to eliminate?

Managing 16 separate RF (or optical) channels never will be easier than managing 16 cables.

ak
 
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Yaakov

Joined Jan 27, 2019
1,612
If you quantize each trigger signal to 7 bits, and tack on a 4 bit address, that's 11 bits per sample. Times 16 sources is 176 bits per "frame" If you want 1 ms temporal quantizing error (latency caused by the time delay between successive samples), that's 176,000 bits per second of a single channel serial data stream. You can reduce the effective signal bandwidth by at least 2:1 with NRZ, Manchester, or some other coding scheme. The hardware on each end isn't conceptually difficult, but it is easier if all 16 trigger signals come to one pile of electronics. Bit isn't that what you are trying to eliminate?

Managing 16 separate RF (or optical) channels never will be easier than managing 16 cables.

ak
I agree that the completely granular wireless approach doesn’t seem to be a starter. Finding a place for 16 frequencies with sufficient bandwidth for the channels would be quite tough all by itself.

I think the answer is going to be clever wiring, with a really easy to use harness and maybe the equivalent of a 16-channel stage box (https://www.amazon.com/Audio-16-channels-returns-Stage-Snake/dp/B00BO8KYEY) on the kit side.
 

Thread Starter

Ryan M

Joined Apr 2, 2019
10
Perhaps a solution would be to attach a little box to your drums with 16 connectors input and get a suitable isolated cable with 16 wires? Some amplification might be needed depending on distance and signal output from the drums.One cable is at least better than 16 :D
Maybe that would be the most "bang for the buck solution"?
Would be achievable if all 16 wires lead to the same place but the locations of the drums is all spread out. Each wire goes its own different direction from the module out. But i appreciate the attempt at a solution and yes, 1 would be better than 16 cables.
 

Thread Starter

Ryan M

Joined Apr 2, 2019
10
I agree that the completely granular wireless approach doesn’t seem to be a starter. Finding a place for 16 frequencies with sufficient bandwidth for the channels would be quite tough all by itself.

I think the answer is going to be clever wiring, with a really easy to use harness and maybe the equivalent of a 16-channel stage box (https://www.amazon.com/Audio-16-channels-returns-Stage-Snake/dp/B00BO8KYEY) on the kit side.
How much bandwidth would be sufficient?
&
Sure, thats an answer, but im afraid its an answer to a different topic. I'm not in question about the best way to configure the kit, I'm just trying to see if wireless is an option at all. Many answers point at using the wired solution, and that's ground zero.

I play electronic drums once a year at the family reunion. Weird little critters after my 9-piece Tama kit, like playing all practice pads. But I digress ...

I don't think I understand the question. Presumably the kit came with a controller and one cable per pad. At the kit you are stuck with the 15 cables. If the only issue with them is extending that wad so the controller can be farther away from the kit, the answer is to keep the controller near the kit and "extend" the controller *output* with a stereo FM transmitter kit. Crystal controlled ones are $5-10, and any FM radio can be the receiver.

Or did I miss something?

ak
I'll try to clarify. The issue is not insufficient reach/range. I guess that would be one reason to transmit wirelessly, but It's actually quite the opposite issue I'm dealing with. It's really a matter of inconvenience (same as a guitarist who performs with a rf transmitter coming out of the guitar instead of a traditional cable leading to the amp- It's convenient).

Everything is so close together going in all different directions that so many cables becomes a mess. It doesn't start out that way. It begins clean, I batton down the cables to the rack and it looks good for a while, but given a little bit of time and tinkering with replacing or adding and subtracting different pieces to the kit, or connecting different computers, sound systems, the wired headphones (monitors) connecting additional modules using midi cables and so-on, eliminating the drum cables would make way for the other types of cables (and sometimes the kids connect the kit to the xbox and play rockband = additional temporary cables on top).

The 16 drum cables are really only the beginning of the scematic. And Then there's breaking down the kit to transport & set it up at another musician's house, at which the process needs to be re-done. Would be nice to eliminate these cables. This isn't a necessity, but rather a luxury I'm exploring to help speed everything up. Less time installing converts to more play/practice time

I'm starting to figure out a that most people have trouble grasping the level of frustration of the cables without experiencing it for themselves. When I first got the kit it wasn't even a thought. But the more you do with the kit = the more that versatility in movement and flexibility start to become the essence.

Earlier I stated that I'd eventually explain the usefulness of going wireless... so there it is. I suspected some would be baffled that I'm not satisfied with the wired solution, and some folks even seem offended by the idea :D

Looking back, I probably should have asked for help transmitting one wireless drum from the trigger pad to the input of the module in order to receive an answer to the method best to use. Then I'd work on how to repeat it 15 more times. It may have proven to bruise less brains than asking for help with all 16 cable replacements at once.

At the end of the day, the wired condition I'm currently at is more than ok if we can't come up with a wireless solution. Life will certainly go on just as well. If anyone can think of something else we missed, please add on to this thread. Also keep in mind it's not audio I'm attempting to transmit. but rather a tiny electrical signal produced by a piezo which tickles the module to trigger a sound when received.

Thanks Guys!
 

Yaakov

Joined Jan 27, 2019
1,612
Looking back, I probably should have asked for help transmitting one wireless drum from the trigger pad to the input of the module in order to receive an answer to the method best to use. Then I'd work on how to repeat it 15 more times. It may have proven to bruise less brains than asking for help with all 16 cable replacements at once.
That would have been a mistake. The solution for one, even if possible, would not scale to 16.

You think we don’t understand your frustration with the kit, but you don’t understand our frustration with your constraints. There are physical and legal limitations you are asking us to wave away. I am confident if you removed the constraint of budget, we could produce a solution, have you got 10 grand hanging around to spend on this?

You haven’t even considered the idea of powering 16 transmitters. Would you use batteries? That would mean a lot of time replacing spares. Rechargeables don’t help much either, and adds the charging of 16 batteries.

Your project isn’t really practical, that’s exactly why people are suggesting ways to reduce or consolidate, not replace, wiring. Yes, there is a reason your kit isn’t already wireless, and its not because its not a nice idea.

You can keep at it, but unless someone surprisingly comes up with a radically different approach that I simply can’t see, I have to step away from this. Good luck, I genuinely hope you manage to prove me needlessly pessimistic. I will leave you with what I started with: one pad does not scale to 16, you must consider all the pads you will make wireless from the start.
 

Thread Starter

Ryan M

Joined Apr 2, 2019
10
That would have been a mistake. The solution for one, even if possible, would not scale to 16.

You think we don’t understand your frustration with the kit, but you don’t understand our frustration with your constraints. There are physical and legal limitations you are asking us to wave away. I am confident if you removed the constraint of budget, we could produce a solution, have you got 10 grand hanging around to spend on this?

You haven’t even considered the idea of powering 16 transmitters. Would you use batteries? That would mean a lot of time replacing spares. Rechargeables don’t help much either, and adds the charging of 16 batteries.

Your project isn’t really practical, that’s exactly why people are suggesting ways to reduce or consolidate, not replace, wiring. Yes, there is a reason your kit isn’t already wireless, and its not because its not a nice idea.

You can keep at it, but unless someone surprisingly comes up with a radically different approach that I simply can’t see, I have to step away from this. Good luck, I genuinely hope you manage to prove me needlessly pessimistic. I will leave you with what I started with: one pad does not scale to 16, you must consider all the pads you will make wireless from the start.
Duly Noted. I believe I've gathered enough intel to take a swing at it.
Rechargeable lipo batteries, either 9v or left over LIPO from RC cars is what I had initially planned on using to keep costs low, I solder on the connections to balance-recharge the batteries at the base using a preconfigured daisy chain, but this was never intended to be the topic. I only answered this because it might help someone who is wondering the same thing you are asking about how to constantly keep them powered. unless anyone knows a solar power solution. (kidding- not practical)
I sure hope that I haven't frustrated you with my lack of knowledge as you stated. It wasn't meant to ruffle any feathers, some people enjoy a challenge. Pessimism is accepted and I totally accept answers alluding toward it not being feasible as it's helpfull & I respect the opinions of everyone here, mainly because you are all super intelligent so you can help me discover the any challenges and "deal-breakers" early on. Just trying to weed out , ignore, and highly discourage comments that try to steer a person away from attempting it or anything off the topic, which is simply weather or not it can be done, how it can be done, or why not.
I hope you continue following the thread. I think you will be pleasantly surprised and perhaps be able to help someone of this nature in the future, as I'll be sharing my work. Thanks to you and everyone else for the ideas and knowledge base you've shared. It's been a blast!
 
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