Lol. Electironics wise almost 0 other than what I have learned the past week which is minor to compared to the overall picture. I do know you have to program them which that shouldn't be to hard as I can write simple programs for computers so I'm thinking that I can learn on the fly. As far as putting together everything to equal out to what I need for a final project, lets put it this way, it has taken me a few days to learn what little I know about the 4060 binary counters and the 555 timer as well as what little I've picked up on the crystals.

But from what little I read on microprocessors, I think it is something I would like to eventually learn, whether it be on this project or another down the road as I am looking forward to learning as much as possible about electronics/how they work/ and how to make them do what they need to do.

 

You can't go wrong learning µC (microcontrollers), as they eliminate a lot of hardware in favor of software. Haveing said that, you still want help designing your board?

 

I would most definitely love some help on designing my board in which ever way I go which will be the best, as I am now assuming my original idea is not. I researched alot more last night on crystals and found how to implement it into my design but don't know how to get the timing from 1/2 second to 8 hours (4 on 4 off or however). I also attempted at looking for how to implement a microprocessor and unfortunately could not figure much out about the board design only information on the programming of the processor.

 

Ok. I think I may have a more general idea on the micro controller. If I use a picaxe 8 pin controller then basically all I would have to do is program it for my times, come out of pin 6 to a relay that will act on 5v and switch my 120vac to on, and implement a diode. Is it that simple or am I missing something? On the few schematics I've found that are vaguely similar to mine, some have transistors and resistors in line before the relay which I don't understand.

 

Yep, but I'm no good with µC. There are other people here who could help you. Look around, and send them a PM referring them to this thread.

As a matter of policy folks don't do technical stuff via PM, but it is considered OK to ask for help.

 

Hello,

To make 8 hours from the 1 sec signal I said divide by 8 X 60 X 60.
This can be done using the 74HC92 ( a divide by 12 chip) followed by a part of a 74HC90 (the divide by 5 part).
This twice, makes the 60 X 60 part.
(afther the first set you have minutes, afther the secon set you have hours).
Then put it through a 74HC93 witch is a divide by 16 counter (take the divide by 8 output).

For more info on the 7400 series see here:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_7400_series_integrated_circuits
For the connections of the mentioned counters see here:
http://www.kingswood-consulting.co.uk/giicm/7450.html

Greetings,
Bertus

 

If the source is from the 4060 add another ÷2. That is one way to do it, I estimate it will be around 7 chips. Another way is a set of counters with a simple reset connected to a diode gate, around 4 chips and a handful of diodes.

At the moment though, before I design anything, I want to know which way the OP is going to go. I can spend several hours or more on this, and don't want to waste my time on something that won't be used.

I agree the µC is worth learning. The entire project in one chip.

 

By no means do I want to waste anyone's time. That is not what I was looking for and I'm sorry if it came across that way. I appreciate everyone's input in this seemingly simple project that I evidently am making harder than it is. I am going to try to see if I can come up with how the 8 x 60 x 60 works and how I can come up with a design to fit my project and post back as I do like to learn things and I have actually learned a lot the past day whether it seems minuscule to the knowledge of the people here or not. Thank you everyone.

 

If you cannot afford to build a crystal oscillator, you can always try using a tantalum capacitor as your "time base". There are several factors that will affects the precision of a 555 based circuit. One is the leakage resistance of the capacitor, which in tantalum capacitor is lower. The other is related to the resistor values you choose. The higher they are, the more susceptible the circuit is from being affected by external factors such as humidity.

But yes, something like a small pic timed by a crystal oscillator would be ideal.

 

Lol. Electironics wise almost 0 other than what I have learned the past week which is minor to compared to the overall picture. I do know you have to program them which that shouldn't be to hard as I can write simple programs for computers so I'm thinking that I can learn on the fly. As far as putting together everything to equal out to what I need for a final project, lets put it this way, it has taken me a few days to learn what little I know about the 4060 binary counters and the 555 timer as well as what little I've picked up on the crystals.

But from what little I read on microprocessors, I think it is something I would like to eventually learn, whether it be on this project or another down the road as I am looking forward to learning as much as possible about electronics/how they work/ and how to make them do what they need to do.

The following links are in a some what of an order to assist you get started on learning how to program Pic microcontrollers from Microchip. You would have to be familiar with either "C" or assembly programming to program the Microchip microcontrollers.

I would suggest to buy the following programmer to get you started:

A PICkit 2 Starter Kit. It can be found at the following link:

http://www.microchip.com/stellent/i...E&nodeId=1406&dDocName=en023805&part=DV164120

With this programmer, you can utilize the MPLAB IDE software to program the microcontroller (pic16f690). You would be able to program it with either assembly or C code. However, in order to program the pic16f690 with "C" code, you would have to install the HITECT PICC-Lite Version software. All of the software mentioned is free as of this moment.

The following links may assist you on how to write code for the supported microchips by the PICkit 2 programmer. For your information, the pickit 2 programmer can program a huge variety of microcontrollers from microchip..........

http://www.gooligum.com.au/tutorials.html
http://www.ermicro.com/blog/?p=875
http://www.ermicro.com/blog/?p=909
http://www.ermicro.com/blog/?p=423
http://www.ermicro.com/blog/?p=820

I hope all of the information given above is of help to you. Good luck

 

Ok so I have finished reading about the 7400 chips and redesigned my project around them, and I think I have it right according to how Bertus put it. If it isn't to much trouble to ask, I would appreciate if someone would look over my schematic and see if it is correct and also I haven't a clue how to connect to the relay and diode as the data sheet for the relay only shows what I have drawn. Thank you so much to everyone who has helped me.

 

Ever use a protoboard? They are the easy way to test some thing like this out. Basically one big socket, for wire as well as the chips.

 

Well after spending a countless amount of time researching the chips Bertus listed and designing my project using them and figuring out how they work, now, I can't find the chips. Well I can but at more than half the cost of the entire project for just those five chips which I find to be unrealistic. Especially when they have a similar chip but is "dual" for 1/4 the price but I can't find any information on the data sheets to support my theory for connecting them. So now I seem to be back all the way at the beginning except with knowledge of chips that seem almost unattainable.

 

OK, I'll draw you up something that uses nothing but 4060 and 555. It will take around 4 chips, and a bunch of diodes. It'll take a few days, when I get time off for the weekend.

I'll probably show both an RC version and a crystal version, the 4060 will do both.

 

Ive got it. If I use a 4060 chip with a 38400Hz crystal. Come out of Q14 and go into a 4040 and divide by four, then go back into a 4060, Q14 will give me 7.85hrs then I can go into my 555. I knew if I studied everything long enough I'd figure it out. My question is, When using the 38400hz crystal, do I set it up using the same value of cap and res as the image I posted on page 2? THANKS TO EVERYONE WHO HAS HELPED ME.

 

If you have 60 HZ low voltage available, the 60 Hz makes a stable time base to feed into the 4060, decode 8 hrs to trigger 555. Do you know resistance of relay?

 

70 ohms +10% at 5vdc according to the data sheet

Sorry for my lack of knowledge but how would I get a 60hz low voltage signal?

 

By no means do I want to waste anyone's time. That is not what I was looking for and I'm sorry if it came across that way. I appreciate everyone's input in this seemingly simple project that I evidently am making harder than it is. I am going to try to see if I can come up with how the 8 x 60 x 60 works and how I can come up with a design to fit my project and post back as I do like to learn things and I have actually learned a lot the past day whether it seems minuscule to the knowledge of the people here or not. Thank you everyone.

This seems to me like you are trying to boil the ocean. Your proposed circuit is far more complex than it needs to be. Either use a PIC, if you decide to learn how to program them, or one of the timer chips available that already has the counters/dividers incorporated within it, such as the XR2240 or the ZN1034. Simples.

 

If using 60 Hz for time base, it will take a 20 stage counter or 2 12 stage counters [ 4040=12 stages ]. On print 4020 should be 4040.For 8 hours we need a division of 1,728,000; 8 X 60 X 60 X60. If a list of the binary sequence for 21 steps is made, 2097152 [21 step ] is larger than our divisor, so going to next lower # 20 we subtract it from our 1728000=1048576, next highest #[19] is then subtracted =155136. Finally we end with 0 after subtracting #10; so we have stages 10 11,12,13,15,17,19,& 20 with 3 skips which might lead to multiple counts, so we add invertors to 14, 16 &18. If we had a big 11 input AND gate , output to both resets we have our 8 hours, instead 11 inputs are made up of 3 in NANDs, and invertors. Something to play with at least.

 

Your relay draws about 71 mA so add 100 ohms between 555 & relay, if using 12 V powersupply. A small 120 to 12V transformer can supply clock , & with just a little more will supply the 12 DC for logic.