These LED G4 bulbs dont seem to be what they were advertised as for lumens

Thread Starter

sdowney717

Joined Jul 18, 2012
711
I installed them side by side in the boat light fixture and to my eye they are the same light output as the 1142 incandescent bulbs. I thought about complaining to the seller about the lumens.
I decided will use them, but now I am wondering is this the best all the manufacturers have to offer?
They were advertised as 6 watt bulbs and 550 lumens. I know I got the 6 watt version since the picture of the 6 watt version is the kind I recieved. They also dimmed perfectly, (I tested using a car battery charger which has 6 or 12 volt output.)
I measured the current use as 0.1 amp per bulb. Two bulbs measured 0.2 amps.

Please educate me, how can these be 6 watt bulbs, the amps they use don't reflect that.
It does mention 10 to 20 volts, if I run them at 12 to 13 volts, does that mean they won't be putting out the advertised lumens? Most people will of course be using these at 12 -13 volts.

I had been hoping for brighter lights and was going to install a PWM dimmer, but if they are not any brighter than original I see little point to dimming them.

Link to item, all 10 bulbs work and looks like a good design to me.
https://www.aliexpress.com/item/G4-...pm=a2g0s.13010208.99999999.259.4cba3c00EEhPrh
20181011_221338.jpg
 

bertus

Joined Apr 5, 2008
22,270
Hello,

It is strange that you only measure 0.1 Amp at 12 Volts.
That would be only 1.2 Watt in stead of the mentioned 6 watts.

The page mentiones that there are 48 3014 leds inside.
When the leds would be run at 60 mA each led would be about 20 lm so about 960 lm total
When the leds would be run at 30 mA each led would be about 10 lm so about 480 lm total

luxeon 3014 performance.png

Bertus
 

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oz93666

Joined Sep 7, 2010
739
Led sellers are notoriouse for not being accurate in their specifications ....

It seems from your information they are about 1W , and contain circuitry to deliver the correct current to the actual leds , so running them at 12 or 24 V should make no difference ...

If you challanged the manufacturer he would tell you "6W" means the bulb gives the equivelent light of a 6W incandesent , which it aproximatly does ...

You've bought the best available ... incandesents are not an option .. I would just accept that's the best the technology can deliver ...

It's a good product at a great price ... warm white is easier on the eyes , and best not to view the bulbs directly , have them aimed at a white wall and the light bounces off .
 

Thread Starter

sdowney717

Joined Jul 18, 2012
711
What I can do, is run 2 led bulbs in each fixture, I did notice when running 2 the light output was greater.
I found very similar bulbs to these on Amazon for a good price.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B06XNMFBMS/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
These look identical to what I have, but again some user comments said were not very bright as they thought. And they mention 4 watts not 6 watts.

I had also bought 10 small ceramic G4 socket holders with wires, so I could parallel the bulbs one on each side of the fixture, there is room inside to do that.

I really wanted brighter and then be able to dim down. It seems might be the only thing I can do. I don't have any experience with these bulbs yet, so I don't know what brightness they actually are supposed to produce. I just do not know what to expect.

Honest sellers? Good question, are they supposed to actually measure 6 watts in use or not?

How about those amazon bulbs, I wonder if they will measure out to be 4 watts or 1 watt.
 

Thread Starter

sdowney717

Joined Jul 18, 2012
711
The fake bulb sellers have saved money on their driver circuitry, they don't drive the LED's to their potential it seems. So IMO, yeah, add up the LED's to come up with an advertised wattage, then underdrive the circuit to save money, as he says.
Another possibility is knock off, inferior, or rejected LEDs that cant take the power so they have to under drive them or they blow up.
However it is, simply not as described. I have not been able to buy a 12vdc led bulb which actually performs as advertised, perhaps I have to spend a lot more money?
All the 120v AC bulbs do perform as expected. I even contemplated tearing apart a 120v AC bulb (they have a flat LED disc inside) and rewiring the boat to use 120v AC power for the overhead lights. But maybe they would overheat.
I will be surprised if the Amazon LED I ordered actually consume 4 watts of power.

Perhaps if they do not, I should complain to Amazon they are allowing fraudulent sellers.
 
Last edited:

ebeowulf17

Joined Aug 12, 2014
3,307
What I can do, is run 2 led bulbs in each fixture, I did notice when running 2 the light output was greater.
I found very similar bulbs to these on Amazon for a good price.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B06XNMFBMS/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
These look identical to what I have, but again some user comments said were not very bright as they thought. And they mention 4 watts not 6 watts.

I had also bought 10 small ceramic G4 socket holders with wires, so I could parallel the bulbs one on each side of the fixture, there is room inside to do that.

I really wanted brighter and then be able to dim down. It seems might be the only thing I can do. I don't have any experience with these bulbs yet, so I don't know what brightness they actually are supposed to produce. I just do not know what to expect.

Honest sellers? Good question, are they supposed to actually measure 6 watts in use or not?

How about those amazon bulbs, I wonder if they will measure out to be 4 watts or 1 watt.
I hate to say it, but I think we all need to learn to speak and think in terms of lumens. Light bulb packaging got a little messy with CFLs, listing both actual and "equivalent" wattage, since most consumers know the bulb brightness they need only in terms of incandescent wattage. Things have gotten much worse in the LED era, with some products listing actual wattage, some listing equivalent wattage, and some listing both, but relatively few products being clear about any of it.

You need to shop now in terms of light output first, wattage second. If the light output really isn't as advertised, you've got a more substantial claim, but I don't think you'll get anywhere arguing wattage figures - the numbers are messy and nearly meaningless.

Don't get me wrong, they *should* have a clear, precise meaning, but that's just not the world we live in - certainly not with eBay, Amazon, Alibaba, etc. I still expect useful numbers in datasheets from reputable manufacturers, but not from online vendors.
 

Thread Starter

sdowney717

Joined Jul 18, 2012
711
I hate to say it, but I think we all need to learn to speak and think in terms of lumens. Light bulb packaging got a little messy with CFLs, listing both actual and "equivalent" wattage, since most consumers know the bulb brightness they need only in terms of incandescent wattage. Things have gotten much worse in the LED era, with some products listing actual wattage, some listing equivalent wattage, and some listing both, but relatively few products being clear about any of it.

You need to shop now in terms of light output first, wattage second. If the light output really isn't as advertised, you've got a more substantial claim, but I don't think you'll get anywhere arguing wattage figures - the numbers are messy and nearly meaningless.

Don't get me wrong, they *should* have a clear, precise meaning, but that's just not the world we live in - certainly not with eBay, Amazon, Alibaba, etc. I still expect useful numbers in datasheets from reputable manufacturers, but not from online vendors.
Yes, sure we need to think in terms of lumens, but that is not easily or cheaply measurable by most people, so you take the bulb makers word for it, the lumen value and you compare the brightness to a bulb of an absolutely known quantity after the purchase. Of course by then it's too late, the money has changed hands, the transaction finished.

And vast majority of people can not make their own led bulbs from known good component parts and using data sheets.

The 1142 bulbs are the same brightness as these allegedly led '6 watt' 540 lumen bulbs I bought. The 1142 are ever so slightly warmer in color. An 1142 bulb puts out far less than 540 lumens, so the led should have been noticeably brighter. I think the 12 vdc led bulb makers are faking their way all the way to the bank. Regarding the Amazon bulbs I linked, reading the buyers comments, maybe half said they were no brighter or less bright than the 20 watt halogens, so it is a problem.

A superbrightled.com bulb for 320 lumens G4 is $7 per bulb. I wonder if it really is 320 lumens, and the price is high to find out.

https://www.superbrightleds.com/mor...2v-acdc-bi-pin-led-bulb-320-lumens/4216/9468/
 
Last edited:

ebeowulf17

Joined Aug 12, 2014
3,307
Just to clarify, it does sound like it would be unrealistic to get the claimed 550 lumens from this bulb if it's only consuming 1.2W of power, so you may well have a legitimate complaint here - I would just be careful to focus on light output, not wattage claims.

As for having no recourse after the money changes hands, you get what you pay for. If you want specs that are more likely to be realistic, and good return policies for when they aren't, shop from more reliable sources. I support brick and mortar stores and trustworthy online supply houses because I don't want to live in a wild west, snake oil peddling world where specs are meaningless. From everything I've seen and heard, it's a total crapshoot on Ali, etc. Some items are good products and great prices, and others are total garbage. Buyer beware. Sorry.
 

Thread Starter

sdowney717

Joined Jul 18, 2012
711
Hello,

In holland they sell similar leds.
They claim it is 2 Watts with 160 Lumens to replace a 20 Watt halogen bulb:
https://nuled.nl/g4-led-steek-lamp-12v-en-2w
(sorry for the dutch language)

I think this is a more realistic approach.

Bertus
2 watts for 160 lumens?
The allied express bulbs I got measure 1.3 watts for the same brightness as an 1142 bulb which has 265 lumens.
https://www.topbulb.com/1142-bulb-1-44-watt-incandescent.

So I get more lumens and less watts used for the allied express bulbs than your example, to my eyes.

I know lumens are not easily determinable, but to my eye the 1142 bulb and the led bulbs I got from allied express are the exact same brightness. So maybe lumens are also subjectively not accurately represented in advertising from various sellers, so yeah a 'crap shoot' for lumens and watts. But most people can tell when they turn on the bulbs what's up. And showing lit up bulbs in closeups in advertising is meaningless.

So far it is the wild west for 12v dc led bulbs, imo. However, every 120vac led bulb I have bought from a us big box store, walmart, lowes, home depot, has been as you would expect for light output.
 
Last edited:

shortbus

Joined Sep 30, 2009
10,045
The 1142 bulbs are the same brightness as these allegedly led '6 watt' 540 lumen bulbs I bought. The 1142 are ever so slightly warmer in color.
This may be the whole thing in a nut shell. To compare bulbs they must be the same " color temperature". Think of the new 'projector beam' type headlights in cars, they are a 'hotter' color than the regular halogen bulbs so they look like they are brighter and more watts. But both are constrained by the same Federal standards as far as wattage is concerned, it comes down to the 'bluish white' of the projectors vs the more 'yellowish white' of the halogen.
https://www.topbulb.com/color-temperature
 

Thread Starter

sdowney717

Joined Jul 18, 2012
711
This may be the whole thing in a nut shell. To compare bulbs they must be the same " color temperature". Think of the new 'projector beam' type headlights in cars, they are a 'hotter' color than the regular halogen bulbs so they look like they are brighter and more watts. But both are constrained by the same Federal standards as far as wattage is concerned, it comes down to the 'bluish white' of the projectors vs the more 'yellowish white' of the halogen.
https://www.topbulb.com/color-temperature
But that does not explain the measured wattage being so low .
The color difference is almost non existent. I would say the 1142 are 2700k, and the led are 3000k.
Unless your trying to see it, you would say they are the same color.
 

shortbus

Joined Sep 30, 2009
10,045
But that does not explain the measured wattage being so low .
The color difference is almost non existent. I would say the 1142 are 2700k, and the led are 3000k.
Unless your trying to see it, you would say they are the same color.
When was the last time a appliance or power tool or anything, had a "true" wattage? Look at things like vacuum cleaners, stereos, etc. Watts don't mean what they used to.
 

Audioguru

Joined Dec 20, 2007
11,248
My electrical utility company gave me some free LED light bulbs. The 10W 800 lumens 3000k LED bulbs that look yellow when compared to the 13W 800 lumens 3000k compact fluorescent bulbs that looked like pure white. The new 10W bulbs the wrong color are much brighter than the old 13W bulbs.
The new 17W 1600 lumens LED bulbs turn on immediately then are also much brighter than the old 23W compact fluorescent bulbs that take 30 seconds to warm up.
 

Thread Starter

sdowney717

Joined Jul 18, 2012
711
When was the last time a appliance or power tool or anything, had a "true" wattage? Look at things like vacuum cleaners, stereos, etc. Watts don't mean what they used to.
The seller says 6 watts and 540 lumens.
My experience is 1.3 watts (12.8v dc times 0.1 amps) and 265 lumens, so not as described, but the bulbs seem comparable to 1142 output, so I estimate 265 lumens of light output.

I ordered some Amazon bulbs, they say 4 watts and can reach 290 to 350 lumens, when they come I will report back what I experience. I am planning on doubling up, put 2 LED bulbs in the fixture, that will double the lumens.
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B06XNMFBMS/ref=oh_aui_detailpage_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&psc=1
"HIGH PEFORMANCE: AC/DC 12V output, Dimmable bulb with G4 base,SMD3014 64 LEDs, can reach 290-350 lm"

What means 'can reach'??
 

ebeowulf17

Joined Aug 12, 2014
3,307
So far it is the wild west for 12v dc led bulbs, imo. However, every 120vac led bulb I have bought from a us big box store, walmart, lowes, home depot, has been as you would expect for light output.
Sounds to me like the issue isn't 120VAC vs 12VDC, but where you're buying them. When you buy from trusted stores, you get what you expect. When you buy from AliExpess or Amazon, you get who-knows-what. This doesn't seem to be voltage or style dependent. You're playing roulette with online vendors. Sometimes you'll win, but overall the house always wins (and you lose.)
 

Thread Starter

sdowney717

Joined Jul 18, 2012
711
Maybe so about where to buy bulbs.
Took some pics of how I doubled the bulbs. I drilled a hole and epoxied in ceramic G4 sockets into the reflector.
It works, but I have to be at there after dark to test the difference using one versus two bulbs.
It was not hard to wire in the extra sockets, the original 1142 sockets are real high quality, they use a screw to secure a wire, so I soldered the G4 socket leads to those wires then reattached to the 1142 lamp socket. That keeps the smaller G4 wires integrated into the fixture. I could even add a third bulb, but not going to.
20181015_135209.jpg 20181015_135226.jpg
 

Thread Starter

sdowney717

Joined Jul 18, 2012
711
Testing the Amazon Led's. They look identical to the allied express bulbs. The current reads a little higher.
One meter reads 0.13 a
Other meter reads 0.17 a on 20 amp scale and 0.33ma on ma scale, which is not very comparable, imo.

Any thoughts, how come the craftsman meter seems so different from a to ma scales?
20181017_112804 (1).jpg 20181017_113328 (1).jpg 20181017_114337.jpg
 
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