For me it's a matter of integration.

When I started as an IC designer in 1978, the push was always to increase the level of integration because it made all electronics assemblies smaller and cheaper. When VCR's first were out, the insides had dozens of components, at least three circuit boards. Eventually, it was one small PCB and a giant 48 pin IC that did everything. And the prices had dropped from maybe $600 for a stereo VCR to maybe $150.

As IC designers, our customers got used to the idea that everytime they integrated something, the price went down.

An interesting thing happened about 10 years ago as IC packages got tinier and tinier... eventually getting so small they were essentially just a die with feet. At that point, integrating further sometimes did not make sense because it forced a lrger package and increased cost so the "integration discount" ceased to be a given fact.

 

Planned Obsolescence - so true.

////
I still use Win XP. I//// Never had a reason to upgrade. /////
Win 7 - what's that? Never used it.

Problem is when the power supply in your PC blows up and takes out the mother board and everything else, the repair cost is twice what a new PC costs..... so you have to buy new and every PC on earth has Windows 7 in it. I hated changing, some of my best software which worked perfectly in XP is completely incompatible with WIN 7, and I am screwed.

The problem is digi heads just love the "latest" version of whatever crap Msoft is slinging. Win 7 provides absolutely no advantages to 99% of users, it's just "new". Msoft claims it has features to make home networking easier for small businesses. Who cares? half my software doesn't run anymore, that's what I care about.

And Msoft offer the feature of "virtual XP" to try to run old software (no guarantees it works) and all you have to do is spend $200 to upgrade to Windows 7 Premium to get it.

Msoft marketing plan: issue a new OS that's incompatible with everything..... offer a "solution" that costs an extra $200.

I'd like to take a tire iron to them.

 

Hi Folks,

Being 68 I can sure relate to the OP. I was given a radio that didn't work in the 8th grade by a friend of my moms. Discovered a neighbors dad that was into electronics so went to him for help with the radio. He handed me an RCA tube manual and said go home and draw a schematic of the radio. I did just that, when I wend back with my hand drawn schematic he could quickly see that two of the tubes had been mixed up. Swapped the two tubes and I was hooked.

After spending most of my life fixing two-way radios I started playing with computers and am now self employed writing software for the amusement industry.

Microsoft simply doesn't understand that some of us need computers to do real work and could care less about social media and the internet. In my opinion XP was the last OS that could be made to actually accomplish anything. Windows 7 can be hacked into something that will more or less work.. Windows 8 is a joke.

The best of the best was Windows NT but nobody is writing drivers for hardware and XP is on the same slope. Glad I'm old, by the time XP is dead I'll be gone with it.

I feel I lived through the golden age of many things, cars, electronics, pollitics.. I remember being able to buy a gun in a grocery store. I hope the future doesn't turn out the way it's looking and happy I won't be around to see it.

 

Hi Folks,

Being 68 I can sure relate to the OP. I was given a radio that didn't work in the 8th grade by a friend of my moms. Discovered a neighbors dad that was into electronics so went to him for help with the radio. He handed me an RCA tube manual and said go home and draw a schematic of the radio. I did just that, when I wend back with my hand drawn schematic he could quickly see that two of the tubes had been mixed up. Swapped the two tubes and I was hooked.

I built am AM radio in my 11th grade electronics class. It was one of those new high tech transistors sets. Our fianl test for the year required that we draw the schematic from memory.

After spending most of my life fixing two-way radios I started playing with computers and am now self employed writing software for the amusement industry.

I did pretty much the same thing. Started in electronics then moved into programming. But I am not doing anything as fun as working for the amusement industry. I wrote an environmental control system once, I wish I had stuck with it.

Microsoft simply doesn't understand that some of us need computers to do real work and could care less about social media and the internet. In my opinion XP was the last OS that could be made to actually accomplish anything. Windows 7 can be hacked into something that will more or less work.. Windows 8 is a joke.

The best of the best was Windows NT but nobody is writing drivers for hardware and XP is on the same slope. Glad I'm old, by the time XP is dead I'll be gone with it.

My worry is the popularity of the tablet PC and the desktop might be on it's way out. It will make this hobby much harder and / or more expensive.

I feel I lived through the golden age of many things, cars, electronics, pollitics.. I remember being able to buy a gun in a grocery store. I hope the future doesn't turn out the way it's looking and happy I won't be around to see it.

I think we are both nostalgic. There were a lot of good things about the past but a lot of not so good too. The future anf the present are pretty much the same, just different.

 

Altogether, it is a lot better now than ever, especially with having the internet.

As you say, having a forum like AAC is wonderful. I get a big kick out of trying to fix someone's stereo who is halfway around the globe.

Data sheets and specs are instantly available. Circuit schematics of antique equipment is readily available, much more so than for modern electronics. Hence you are more likely to be able to fix something antique than something modern.

And if you have a computer bug, someone has already encountered it and has posted a solution.

I can order parts at 5pm and it will arrive 10am next day (no minimum order or shipping charges for an institutional account). More efficient than having spend 1 to 2 hours driving out to our nearest electronics supplier which may not have the part in stock.

I agree with everything you said, and would also like to add that freely available SPICE simulation packages really make a difference.

One thing that has changed for the worse is the percentage of people that are interested in electronics (at least in western countries). I have on my desk the current paper catalog of the Volkshochschule (adult evening classes). Their courses cover an incredible amount of topics: Starting from everything you will ever need to know about the internet, ending with languages like Mongolian and Sanskrit. But there is not one single course on electronics ! 20 or 25 years ago there where lots of them, analog, digital, applications of control theory, whatever you wished for. It is just that people have so much options now, that it is small miracle if someone gets interested in electronics.

 

One thing that has changed for the worse is the percentage of people that are interested in electronics .....

Yes I am noticing this too. Back in the day there were lots of people interested. I think a lot of it has to do what I mentioned in my OP. It used to be that consumer electronics were simple. People with just a little knowledge could fix their televisions. Really all you needed was to know how to use a tube tester to get stated. Once you popped the back of the set off to test the tubes, you would want to learn more about the set so an electronics class was in order.

Now electronics are so complicated, people don't even attempt to understand how it works. They just take it for granted. I would bet most people have no idea how their cell phone works (not even the very basics) yet they use them everyday.

 

They just take it for granted. I would bet most people have no idea how their cell phone works (not even the very basics) yet they use them everyday.

Well Spinnaker, for the case, the same would be with cars, freezers, microwaves, sewing machines, ships, planes and <long list goes here>.

 

We have already seen this in HAM radio.

Once upon a time HAMs used to build their own rigs.
Now it is a lot easier and less expensive to go out and buy a handheld or a station rig without having a clue of what is inside.

I saw the turning point in the ARRL Handbook when a simple 2-transistor Morse code practice oscillator was replaced by a 555 timer circuit.

 

Planned Obsolescence - so true.

Same with automobiles - how many folks do you know who are driving a 10+ year old car?

Our Toyota Echo is 12 years and still going strong.

Our Maytag washer and dryer are 23 years old - with no repairs expect for a solenoid that I replaced myself.

Your PC, smart phone, mp3 player, etc. is already obsolete by the time you buy it.

I still use Win XP. I still use my Microchip PICStart Plus on Win 3.1. Never had a reason to upgrade. Once in awhile I go back to DOS.

Win 7 - what's that? Never used it.

You can do amazing things even only having an antiquated VGA card.

The young generation who buys a PC for the first time however is interested to have an avail of the most modern technology.

For economic reasons, older chains of technology, which of course are still useable, are abandoned.

I had this question myself a while ago, and someone from Microsoft explained it to me on a forum.

The typical percentage of users who really need to maintain older chains of technology is less than 5%.

It wasn't included in the explanation but I think if they put efforts into maintaining the older chains, they'd loose out customers who are more interested in the best possible technology.

Moreover, other companies would eventually try to make money with these.

It is a bit irritating to have a new Windows every 2 years or so, but each time there are meaningful improvements.

With Windows 8, the need for USB drivers will be gone for devices which support Windows natively. There is now a new way to implement an USB descriptor in the firmware. Just one example.

Should Microsoft withold such new developements, or patch the existing Windows version beyond repair?

 

My HP PC just died.

First symptom was the dreaded blue screen of death.
Next, after powering down, it would not power up.

I got an ATX power supply from another PC being thrown away and replaced the PSU.

Now up and running again.

The suspect PSU is BESTEC ATX-250-12Z D3R.
I can see some bulging caps in there.
Not sure if it is worth trying to repair this PSU.

 

Microsoft simply doesn't understand that some of us need computers to do real work and could care less about social media and the internet. In my opinion XP was the last OS that could be made to actually accomplish anything. Windows 7 can be hacked into something that will more or less work.. Windows 8 is a joke.

What the computer world can't comprehend is that some of us consider a computer to be an appliance which we use. All we require of it is what PC's will never do: work as it should and be reliable. When I have my stuff working as I need it.... LEAVE IT ALONE. We don't need another new buggy OS...... it is truly absurd that about the time they get the bugs mostly worked out when they are up to "service pack" (PATCH KIT) four or five, they bring out a new OS with all new bugs and problems.

Idiots.

 

Not sure if it is worth trying to repair this PSU.

They sell on the internet for about $12. Seriously.

If you ever wonder why PC power supplies are worthless junk, the manufacturer's cost is probably $5.

 

Example.. The simple parallel port is gone. It was a great way to talk to the outside world. Used it for years with a simple transistor-relay interface to control the camera's lens (focus, zoom and iris motors). Also used one input to tell the computer when to grab the picture.

Now I have to use a USB microcontroller plus the transistor-relay interface to do the same thing. Guess making it more complex is progress.

Microsoft is a dictator, they force computer and hardware manufactures to comply with whatever they are selling at the time.

 

Sounds like it's time for Microsoft to do like International Rectifier and other component companies do. Sell the rights of the OS to a smaller company that can distribute it at a lower price. They do this by having a smaller overhead cost.

 

Sounds like it's time for Microsoft to do like International Rectifier and other component companies do. Sell the rights of the OS to a smaller company that can distribute it at a lower price. They do this by having a smaller overhead cost.

They make all their money by having a monopoly on their software. They would never do that.

 

Ah, the golden age. Here are a few, direct, quotes:

On ease of service "[l]ack of accessibility is the greatest fault of today's printed circuitry." Radio Electronics, June 1959, pg 50.

On 'staying up to date' with technology: "Engineers do not have to worry about technical obsolescence if they simply keep on going to school for some 40 years after receiving their engineering degree." Radio Electronics, June 1964, pg 8 (italics in original)

And a couple, both related to service: "The most frequently-made complaint against the television industry is about service... [the contention being] a lack of confidence in service technicians." From the same issue, and page, though separate article ""A new breed" of television technician is evolving -- a more 'professional" type than his predecessors... the trend is to certified engineering technicians. The consumer-level servicer ibid will be better educated and trained." Radio Electronics, December 1964, pg 93

Those quotes are, relatively, random. They were picked from the first three magazines that came to hand, out of a selection of several boxes full that date from the mid-50s to the early 70s. The quote I couldn't find when I went looking, that's a lot of looking, was along the lines of 'the average life of a television is five years.' FIVE years! Fool television cost a lot of money! Five years? And, as I recall, they too went 'out of date.' You don't have colour? Loser. You don't have a remote control antenna rotator? Double loser. Only VHF? Oh, you poor sod. Even if there wasn't anything on the UHF locally.

I'm a mostly-old guy, born mid-50s, and I'm still happily getting LEDs to blink, though there is an Arduino or two on the bench I kind of like analog. But I watch kids I know working on their cars; I guess plugged in to the ADB (?) or CANbuss (?) ports. They seem to have no more trouble souping up their four and six cylinder stuff than I did tucked in the engine bay of a full-size Chevy Caprice and burning my hands on the 427 exhaust.

I recall, I think, a circuit in Popular Electronics about 1969 or 1970 for a line-follower robot. Oh, man, I wanted to be able to build that thing. 'What's a 2n3055?' was the oft-received response at Radio-Shack.

To shorten this up. I think any age is the golden age. The old ones reflect on the past, and what it meant to them, especially when we could see the circuit board unaided. Oh, that's with 1/4 watt through hole, not smd. The not-quite old might think about 'back in the day,' or mumble about 'old school,' and the young literally do not know a world without MP3, cell phones, smog control, or ladies getting off a Pan Am flight wearing gloves. 'Cause that's what ladies did, and it was ladies who wore gloves, who could afford to fly.

Now, with my glasses on, and my magnifier on top of that, I'm going to try not destroying an smt 555.

All the best to all.

 

With the daily advances in electronics, there is no purpose in designing a long life span. The consumer seems to always want the newest biggest and brightest. There are few of us left who want products that last a long time. Guess what the make up is of those who want these? Many are contributors to this site and others like it. As for cost, it has always been expensive, today however, you can buy less expensive test equipment than ever before. Compare a Simpson 260 to a $20 DVM.
The military is one of the few places where long life is still valued. There are many subcontractors making a living filling in the holes between Military Service personnel and the factory.

 

Reading through post #36, the mention of the 2n3055 brought back memories. Ever file the cover off of one and use it as an optical sensor?