# The Free Energy Goons Are At It Again...

#### Dave

Joined Nov 17, 2003
6,970
Back in the 1970's there was an "inventor" named Dean, who was working on the "Dean Drive". It was a Rube Goldberg (or Heath Robinbson) lashup of the level you see in perpetual motion machines. It spun a frame with an included mass and latching solenoid. The thing somehow caught the mass near the axle during part of the rotation, and released it such that it apparantly showed a decrease in weight. It looked impressive, as the machining was excellent. Probably soaked some money out of a few "investors".
The Wikipedia article on the Dean Drive suggests that there is ongoing research into proving the validity of Dean's proposals - testing to see if there is a 4th law of motion in addition to Newton's 3 existing laws.

Dave

#### beenthere

Joined Apr 20, 2004
15,819
I wouldn't hold my breath, Dave. The article I saw appeared in Analog, an SF magazine. The editor, John W. Campbell was crusty, but had no physics/science background. This was back in 1970 or 1971.

If the Dean Drive hasn't been fully explicated in more than 30 years, it is not likely to happen. Making one looked to be trivial for a machinist.

#### Dave

Joined Nov 17, 2003
6,970
I wouldn't hold my breath, Dave. The article I saw appeared in Analog, an SF magazine. The editor, John W. Campbell was crusty, but had no physics/science background. This was back in 1970 or 1971.

If the Dean Drive hasn't been fully explicated in more than 30 years, it is not likely to happen. Making one looked to be trivial for a machinist.
Well it seems to suggest this research was commissioned by NASA in the last 10 years or so:

In a paper entitled The Challenge to Create the Space Drive [1] Marc G. Millis argues that a prerequisite to achieving this breakthrough is a description of the specific problems to be solved. Millis suggested studying schemes for realizing a reactionless drive among the concepts to be considered under the aegis of the Breakthrough Propulsion Physics Program, which was funded by NASA from 1996-2002. The program marks the first time an organized scientific effort was mounted by a credible organization to explore some of the wild ideas for new propulsion schemes put forward over the years.
Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dean_drive

Always take Wikipedia with a pinch of salt, but the suggest seems to propose a new area of research called Stochastic Electrodynamics, which may answers some of the rumoured deficiencies in Newton's laws of motion. I think they are suggesting energy from a vacuum from what I could gleem from it. Sounds a bit weird to me.

Dave

#### beenthere

Joined Apr 20, 2004
15,819
Well, it can thrash and it can flash, but work it doesn't - http://www.phact.org/e/z/reaction.htm.

As I said, anything that might work would have been made to work in the last 30 years the Dean Drive (and derrivatives) have been touted.

#### Salgat

Joined Dec 23, 2006
221
Well it seems to suggest this research was commissioned by NASA in the last 10 years or so:

Source: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dean_drive

Always take Wikipedia with a pinch of salt, but the suggest seems to propose a new area of research called Stochastic Electrodynamics, which may answers some of the rumoured deficiencies in Newton's laws of motion. I think they are suggesting energy from a vacuum from what I could gleem from it. Sounds a bit weird to me.

Dave
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zero-point_energy

Zero-point energy, many have tried to extract this energy to create perpetual motion devices.

#### Dave

Joined Nov 17, 2003
6,970
Well, it can thrash and it can flash, but work it doesn't - http://www.phact.org/e/z/reaction.htm.

As I said, anything that might work would have been made to work in the last 30 years the Dean Drive (and derrivatives) have been touted.
Don't get me wrong, I don't believe the claims of Dean, but I do find it interesting that NASA feel the need to invest time and money recently into this field. It seems somewhere in the higher reaches of NASA someone thinks this idea had merit. Then again this could be stealth-vandalism on Wikipedia by the Free-Energy crew, and NASA have commisioned no such research.

Dave

#### recca02

Joined Apr 2, 2007
1,214
whats next an induction motor that runs with negative slip on its own thus generating power instead of consuming it.

#### beenthere

Joined Apr 20, 2004
15,819
Any device that will require a rewrite of the rules the universe works by has to be somewhat suspect.

#### thingmaker3

Joined May 16, 2005
5,084
whats next an induction motor that runs with negative slip on its own thus generating power instead of consuming it.
Somebody was looking for investors for just that very thing in the early 90's. He was using a pyramid marketing scheme if I remember right.

Joined Jan 10, 2006
614

#### recca02

Joined Apr 2, 2007
1,214
marketing pyramid : a pyramid built not from bottom to top but from top to bottom so that the last elements can bite the dust

#### beenthere

Joined Apr 20, 2004
15,819
How many people owe a debt to Mr. Ponzi?

#### Dave

Joined Nov 17, 2003
6,970
How many people owe a debt to Mr. Ponzi?
To how many people does Mr Ponzi owe a debt?

What amazes me is that people are still getting stung by Pyramid Schemes, even though their name is drapped in dirt. Some would argue it serves them right.

Dave

#### beenthere

Joined Apr 20, 2004
15,819
Apparently, something for nothing has a powerful appeal. That may also explain the fascination with perpetual motion devices.

Sadly, though, that nice Nigerian gentleman hasn't contacted me lately about the $20,000,000 he wants to place in my bank account. #### recca02 Joined Apr 2, 2007 1,214 free energy, pyramid marketing, and i thought all superstitions had a spiritual background. #### Dave Joined Nov 17, 2003 6,970 Apparently, something for nothing has a powerful appeal. That may also explain the fascination with perpetual motion devices. Sadly, though, that nice Nigerian gentleman hasn't contacted me lately about the$20,000,000 he wants to place in my bank account.
Lol! He's been in touch with you, too!

free energy, pyramid marketing,
and i thought all superstitions had a spiritual background.
That probably has something to do with "taking a leap of faith" in such instances. Those that get involved with pyramid schemes and the likes, clearly have no idea about how they work, else they wouldn't get involved. In many cases the only way to get people to "buy-into" these things is to hark back to the "spiritual" aspects of them.

Dave

#### thingmaker3

Joined May 16, 2005
5,084

#### Dave

Joined Nov 17, 2003
6,970
I love it!

I recall some years back seeing a programme on TV where they baited a Nigerian group who were trying to pull off a 419 scam. Entering into a lengthy dialog where all details were panned out, they took it all the way to the meet-up, which was basically the presenter of the programme (and chief-baiter) and a rather crude looking bunch of Nigerian heavies. It was pretty clear that the Nigerian group were there to do-over or even kidnap the presenter in order to complete the scam. As it happened they got spooked when they got wind of the cameras and made off without anything. Compelling viewing.

Dave

#### thingmaker3

Joined May 16, 2005
5,084
The folk "Down Under" don't want to be left out of the action! They're selling a fuel that reduces atmospheric carbon. Pay no attention to how this is achieved, (wouldn't want you to google "producer gas" or "orchids + charcoal") just be amazed instead by their miracle fertilizer...

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/050307R.shtml

#### Dave

Joined Nov 17, 2003
6,970
The folk "Down Under" don't want to be left out of the action! They're selling a fuel that reduces atmospheric carbon. Pay no attention to how this is achieved, (wouldn't want you to google "producer gas" or "orchids + charcoal") just be amazed instead by their miracle fertilizer...

http://www.truthout.org/docs_2006/050307R.shtml
With the current frenzy around global-warning, it was only a matter of time before someone came up with this sort of thing

Lets get in on the cash-cow before it dies!

Dave