And I genuinely hope that he receives a hero's welcome when he comes out.

Maybe.
But I can't help but wonder why in heck he took them into a cave that's known to flood in the rainy season, and it's the rainy season.
Seems like a serious lack of good judgement.

 

Maybe.
But I can't help but wonder why in heck he took them into a cave that's known to flood in the rainy season, and it's the rainy season.
Seems like a serious lack of good judgement.

A lot of that would depend on whether he knew that that cave was prone to this kind of flooding with no notice. Didn't I read that this was an unexpected flash flood?

 

Maybe.
But I can't help but wonder why in heck he took them into a cave that's known to flood in the rainy season, and it's the rainy season.
Seems like a serious lack of good judgement.

Shucks! We all make mistakes in judgement.

Copied from Fox News:
Legal challenges may await the 25-year-old coach who led a dozen members of his youth soccer team into a Thai mountain cave that later flooded and trapped the group -- the threat of criminal charges looming even as the team remains stranded and rescuers continue desperate efforts to free them.

Col. Komsan Saard-an, chief of Mae Sai Police Station, declined to rule out negligence charges Tuesday for Ekapol “Aek” Chanthawong, who led the group of 12 boys on the excursion into the Tham Luang Nang Non cave complex in northern Chiang Rai province.

“I decline to answer this issue for now,” Komsan told Khaosod English. “We have to study the matter carefully first.”


A Thai criminal law attorney told Khaosod English the team's coach probably won't face charges because he didn't appear to intend to put the team in danger.

“In my opinion, he had no intent," lawyer Ananchai Chaiyadech said. "Before they went inside, the rain hadn’t started yet. And they went there often, so they must have thought there wouldn’t be any problem. The law also looks at intent.”

 

The latest news is they may have to wait until the end of the rainy season!
Max.

 

There is also an effort underway above the cave system to find and dewater the sources of flooding. If successful, this combined with the pumping may make an ordinary walking and swimming extraction possible.

How bad must the youth soccer programs in Thailand have been treated that they've been driven underground.

 

But can they do this?

 

There is also an effort underway above the cave system to find and dewater the sources of flooding. If successful, this combined with the pumping may make an ordinary walking and swimming extraction possible.

They are also hoping to find another point of access into the cave that has a shorter path to the trapped soccer team.

Large caves like this one can be mostly unexplored and mapped. I will ask a knowledgeable friend if he knows of a map for the Tham Luang cave.

 

Yes, find and try to eliminate the incoming streams, but what about the pumps they are using to remove the water? What I have seen on TV they are just little baby pumps (looks like about 2" plumbing) that would have trouble pumping 100 gallons/minute. Don't they have access to **Large** pumps?

 

The rescuers must balance "good ideas" with unintended consiquences. The team is in an air pocket below the ground water level. If rescuers drill a hole to the cave, they must be able to maintain air pressure in the cave or the hydraulic pressure of the water will blow the air out and flood the cave.

Likewise with redirecting floodwater to keep the area dry, hydrogeologists need to determine how the cave is maintaining an airtight seal. It may be solid rock but it could also be mud. Drying the mud could cause a loss of the seal. Likewise, it could be flowing water that is drawing entrained air to the cave. Lots of bad things can happen so planning and considering options while it is still raining is key. Losing the seal when the rainy season stops will be as sad as losing a seal because of implementing the latest "good idea".

Here is a July 2017 BBC story about a Spanish diver becoming too weak to dive in just two days in an air pocket.
https://www.bbc.com/news/magazine-40558067

 

Don't they have access to **Large** pumps?

That's what I was thinking when I mentioned earlier bringing in specialized expertise. But not just big pumps.

The rescuers must balance "good ideas" with unintended consiquences.

Agreed. My earlier comment about getting experts involved was inspired by what I saw at a recent visit to Mammoth Cave. That particular cave system is simply enormous and nowhere near fully mapped. A tiny portion is diagrammed below.

Something as simple as "elevation" has no meaning underground there since you may be simultaneously down-slope from a water source and up-slope from a drainage point. Any attempt to intervene must be based on a good understanding of the system. That understanding may not exist for this particular cave system, I have no idea.

 

I haven't followed this story about a group of boys and their soccer coach got trapped in a cave that got filled with water, but this is another classic case of "Do Do Happens".

 

This is horrible, it's a reminder of how dangerous the situation actually is... the first hero to lose his life in the rescue attempt:

https://abcnews.go.com/Internationa...licksource_4380645_1_hero_headlines_bsq_image

A former Thai navy SEAL died on Friday working to deliver supplies to the soccer team trapped in a cave in Thailand, the Associated Press reported. The rescuer passed out and died from a lack of oxygen while on a mission supplying oxygen canisters, authorities said.

 

I will ask a knowledgeable friend if he knows of a map for the Tham Luang cave.

Hi Rich,


I don't have access to any maps of this cave. The best maps I've seen of the cave are line-plot overlays of the cave on Google Earth like these.


This one has the most detail:


https://shawglobalnews.files.wordpress.com/2018/07/thailand-cave-map.jpg


This is one shows the 3D aspects of the cave:


https://cdn.cnn.com/cnnnext/dam/ass...ng-nang-non-cave-animated-map-exlarge-169.jpg


Compass can generate this kind of Google Earth overlay of a cave, so it is fairly likely that these maps were generated by Compass. That means there is probably data for the cave in Compass format. People do send me data periodically, but checking through my archives, I don't see any data for this cave.


There are some National Speleological Society (NSS) and international expeditions that work in the area. For example, here is a cave map of Tham Nam Lod, which I think is in the area:


http://caves.org/committee/salons/images/Cart_16/ThamNam.png


Once a cave has been surveyed, people make laboriously hand-drawn maps of the cave like the one pictured above. There is probably one for this cave, but I haven’t seen it. I dig around on the caver forums and see if anyone has found a better map.


Larry

 

More from my friend:



Rich,


I found a better map here:


https://www.thailandcaves.shepton.org.uk/files/cavesurveys/chiangrai/cr0003-tham-luang.png


The cave was mapped by international expeditions from England and Spain, between 1986 and 2016.


The cave is the fourth longest cave in Thailand at 10.316 kilometers or 6.4 miles.


https://www.thailandcaves.shepton.org.uk/longest-caves


Vernon Unsworth, one of the people who was involved in the mapping of cave is involved in the rescue operation:


http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/art...ng-Thai-officials-bring-hero-divers-boys.html


Larry

 

They're on the move now. They have to, because they know they're out of time:

http://www.foxnews.com/world/2018/0...-in-thailand-may-take-days-officials-say.html

... A group of four of the boys was reportedly being led out of the cave, after all of the trapped group underwent training for using scuba equipment

 

Video of a small part of the rescue operation inside the cave.


https://www.facebook.com/100004188134018/videos/1060242094125385/

https://www.facebook.com/100004188134018/videos/1060241780792083/?t=106

https://www.facebook.com/100004188134018/videos/1060242017458726/

 

6 boys emerge from cave!

https://www.news18.com/news/world/t...rst-two-boys-brought-out-of-cave-1802965.html

Edit: Latest reports are indicating that 4 boys have been rescued from the cave.

 

Seems to be on all of the Thai TV channels at the moment.

 

A simple and clear graphic of the challenge that they're facing:

​

 

Since part of the route requires climbing gear, I'm assuming that this is NOT the route that they used to get into the cave. I wonder why they can't use that same route? I'm sure there's a good reason. Perhaps the water depth at some point is too much to risk or the total time under water would be too much.