The part I don’t get is why the “reliable” sources - coal and nuclear - not only didn’t step up, but stepped down. The impact wasn’t huge but moving up instead of down would have made a difference.

 

It wasn’t just the sources, the infrastructure was failing too. Natural gas wells and distribution pipes froze up. Electrical wires broke from heavy icing. Wind generators failed because they were not designed to handle the cold, although Kansas wind turbines kept working. Etc etc etc.

 

The part I don’t get is why the “reliable” sources - coal and nuclear - not only didn’t step up, but stepped down. The impact wasn’t huge but moving up instead of down would have made a difference.

Ironically IMO part of the problem with Texas power is the system is usually very reliable, people don't plan (personal backup generators, food and water reserves) for things that don't happen often like the winter blackouts we see up here most every winter.

They idle and do baseload (coal and nuclear) heavy maintenance (pumps, fans, the usual industrial maintenance) in the winter so the systems will be ready for the long hot summer and to save money in winter. It takes weeks to put shutdown heavy generation sub-systems all back and certify it's ready to go for increased power. When a high level of renewable energy is in the mix baseload generation often compromised and is impossible to recover quickly in an energy emergency.

We've seen that happen in California a few times with a single operational nuc plant. Part of the socal baseload power comes from Oregon via the pacific inter-tie.

https://www.desertsun.com/story/new...robe-unacceptable-power-blackouts/3379425001/

Pleas for people to leave their air conditioners at higher temperatures and avoid using washing machines and other major appliances seemed to have worked.

"Thank you for conserving," California ISO said in a tweet.

The first rolling blackouts in nearly 20 years came Friday as unusually hot weather overwhelmed the electrical grid. The three biggest utilities — Pacific Gas & Electric, Southern California Edison and San Diego Gas & Electric — turned off power to more than 410,000 homes and businesses for about an hour at a time until the emergency declaration ended 3½ hours later

 

I've been unplugged from "the news" and social media (with the exception of this and a couple other forums) for months now. I was surprised when my wife got a call from her mother in the Philippines asking if we were alright. Then I see this post from someone in the UK. I had no idea that the situation here in TX was news around the world. I don't know whether to be flattered or embarrassed. Any publicity is good publicity? I don't know. I think that I would rather have another hurricane than another cold snap like we just had. Hurricanes I am prepared for. They don't effect me much. This did.

 

I've been unplugged from "the news" and social media (with the exception of this and a couple other forums) for months now. I was surprised when my wife got a call from her mother in the Philippines asking if we were alright. Then I see this post from someone in the UK. I had no idea that the situation here in TX was news around the world. I don't know whether to be flattered or embarrassed. Any publicity is good publicity? I don't know. I think that I would rather have another hurricane than another cold snap like we just had. Hurricanes I am prepared for. They don't effect me much. This did.

Are you ok, what happeded? Many people I spoke with on the phones helping with home security issues were without power but, I don’t get to hear back as to how they are getting by, I can only imagine what you had to deal with, but I know it’s nothing compared to reality. Glad your back up on the forums. Stay Safe, hope it‘s not to much to restore normal life.

kv

Edit: I believe in preparedness, I will get a new hot water heater soon, add a whole house system RO (reverse osmosis system) but, in the end I’ll have 60 gal of clean water to drink in the event none can be obtained, I replaced my main line a couple years ago, plus re-piped, I know at that point I would have clean water, also extending the life of my hot water heater. This is my wake up call, I’ll work on increasing my food storage. Again hope all is well with you and yours.

 

I find this all very interesting,
Not least as Im in the UK,

For instance, for us , the down time for generation is in the summer,
a) we have lots of solar now, and b) we don't suffer extreme heat ,so use less power in the summer.

I'm guessing Texas, you all have AC's running 100 percent in the summer, hence the higher consumption then.
What's it like in Texas in the winter ?
I'm guessing you have less solar power available, its winter and so more cloud and lower radiant energy ?

I'd assume that the powers that be assume lees solar available in winter, so the loss of solar should be of little concern to the outcome.

Wind turbines freezing up, amazing,
in Europe , large parts of the north have very heavy snow, I'm guessing same as was alluded to for canada,
they have wind turbines, that work just fine in cold.
I'm wondering if its a design choice yo have to make, they either work in very hot or very cold, not both ?
can't see why but wondering if any one knows.

As for a comment I read about privatisation.
Well we have had both in the UK.

For decades, we were run centrally,
investment was calculate dover 50 years ,
so things like pump storage made perfect sense, and were invested in.
The system was designed to be rugged and secure, with reserve,

20 years ago, things were sold off by the government to make short term money.
Since then, investment has been short term, we now have lots of gas powered power plants,
they are cheap and fast to make, but expensive to run, but the investors in a short time make a return on investment.
Since then, we have had the odd "unexpected lack of available generation" problem, and its forecast to get worse, a net negative generation capacity in the winter in the next decade.
So the government is trying to make new big nuclear power plants, but no private investor want s to be involved I understand because of the environmental constraints and because renewables are cheaper.


interesting to hear what other places are like for power,.

 

Some of it must be removed in hot weather. In the extreme summer heat in the gas producing region of Texas everything from pipelines, electrical and mechanical are designed to eliminate the heat of 110+ days that can stretch for months in a typical Texas summer.

Physics must be different in Tx. Where I live insulation keeps heat in in the winter, and keeps it out in the summer. The insulating of gas pipes and such would be more apt to regulate the temperatures of the gas comming from the ground(~50degrees comes to mind) at all times.

 

It's all about money. Just like when they stopped putting the chemicals in Flint, Mich. water, to save a few pennies.

 

~50degrees comes to mind

More like ~70F which is the temp of my well water from the Florida Aquifer about 800 feet down. This is why water-cooled heat exchange heat pumps are more efficient.

 

I've been disconnected from the news too. Just shoveling my driveway about every other day (cardio!), and loving my heated garage. My first clue about Texas, was when the Mouser order I placed Friday night didn't ship out. I know that the southern states get some nasty ice storms on occasion, and these can take out power lines on a massive scale. That's what happened to our customer in Arkansas back about 15 years ago. I've seen a lot of focus on generation, but did they not get icing with this storm? We get ice less often, but it takes out our power here in the north too.

 

Physics must be different in Tx. Where I live insulation keeps heat in in the winter, and keeps it out in the summer. The insulating of gas pipes and such would be more apt to regulate the temperatures of the gas comming from the ground(~50degrees comes to mind) at all times.

Obviously you don't understand the physics of the entire system by making such a comment. The annual average temperature for Midland-Odessa (a major gas and oil area in Texas) for the entire year is 65.0 degrees with a 100 degree days in April on the history books. This means every square inch of anything is a heat sink of massive size in summer for months at a time, thick winterized insulation is just another heat sink in that environment . The exposed (to promote heat loss in summer to the atmospheric cooling at night) exterior pumping and machinery is what froze here while freezing the water in the gas.


Active heating systems (that also require energy to work) are what's needed here.

 

Are you saying exposed gas pipes keep Texas from overheating during the summer?

 

Are you saying exposed gas pipes keep Texas from overheating during the summer?

No. I'm saying the entire system was designed to withstand heating (reducing heating in a high heat energy background), not to resist cold (lack of heat energy).
https://opentextbc.ca/universityphysicsv2openstax/chapter/mechanisms-of-heat-transfer/

 

At my previous employer they built a natural gas compressor that put out 1000+ bar from some low input pressure, mostly as an engineering exercise I believe it was. Sure gets hot, which was not one of the mayor obstacles. It was a single shaft centrifugal compressor, typical for natural gas applications.
I'm with shortbus on this one. Winterized insulation will greatly diminish heat transfer into or out of the machine. In the summer this should not be a problem. In the winter the bulk gas can keep the metal warm enough not to freeze. I agree that small utility lines will need heat tracing in conditions like in your pictures.

 

At my previous employer they built a natural gas compressor that put out 1000+ bar from some low input pressure, mostly as an engineering exercise I believe it was. Sure gets hot, which was not one of the mayor obstacles. It was a single shaft centrifugal compressor, typical for natural gas applications.
I'm with shortbus on this one. Winterized insulation will greatly diminish heat transfer into or out of the machine. In the summer this should not be a problem. In the winter the bulk gas can keep the metal warm enough not to freeze. I agree that small utility lines will need heat tracing in conditions like in your pictures.

Sure insulation works winter and summer, each with thermodynamic limitations on how effective it is under X energy flow. If the engineers that built the Texas distribution system calculated that enhanced insulation on X parts would reduce heat related system failures and enhance profits it's a high probability it's already been done.

 

Winterized insulation will greatly diminish heat transfer into or out of the machine. In the summer this should not be a problem.

It only works in the Ohio, Pennsylvania area that I live in. All of the gas central pump stations in this are have insulation on the exposed piping. You'll never win an argument with him.

 

Sure insulation works winter and summer, each with thermodynamic limitations on how effective it is under X energy flow. If the engineers that built the Texas distribution system calculated that enhanced insulation on X parts would reduce heat related system failures and enhance profits it's a high probability it's already been done.

I was mostly replying to your post #17 that I read as 'not possible' because 'must be removed'. I don't think that's true, unless you design it that way. Perhaps I read it wrong. Shortbus said it's about the money. I think he's right on the money. I'll bow out now.

 

I was mostly replying to your post #17 that I read as 'not possible' because 'must be removed'. I don't think that's true, unless you design it that way. Perhaps I read it wrong. Shortbus said it's about the money. I think he's right on the money. I'll bow out now.

It's always about the Benjamin's.

 

It only works in the Ohio, Pennsylvania area that I live in. All of the gas central pump stations in this are have insulation on the exposed piping. You'll never win an argument with him.

You won't. His response was quite reasonable. Winterization of the Texas energy infrastructure doesn't mean just adding insulation.
https://www.nerc.com/pa/rrm/Webinars DL/Winter_Weather_Prep_20200903.pdf