Hi, I do appreciate go and study, total get that. Have created my own coils, using a 433mhz transmiter/receiver, to activate, worked ok, i dont understand all the maths and furmulas behind it, total clueless. Needing to create more force then what a standard 12v elecromagnet gives. So asking Is it possible to create such a cicuit using say a pre made ‎YUYUE21 electromagnet, adding bank of supercapacitor to give a split second boost of energy, re charge repeat in seconds? using say 4 AAA batteries or a 9v battery. Needs to be as small as possibleThanks for the time.

 

You want to energize an electromagnet with more force?
What you need is more charge, i.e. more current x time. A super-capacitor alone is not going to do it.
In order to increase the current, you need to increase the voltage.
Any capacitor can sustain current and voltage for only so long. The current and voltage will drop exponentially with time.
You need to determine how long the electromagnet needs to be energized. This will determine the size of the capacitor to use. Then you need to allow sufficient time for the capacitor to recharge.

An electromagnet can run on two voltages, an activation voltage and a holding voltage.
The holding voltage is lower than the activation voltage and allows the electromagnet to run cooler if is continuously energized.
This is where a capacitor could help but you still need that initial high voltage to give it that first kick.

 

You want to energize an electromagnet with more force?
What you need is more charge, i.e. more current x time. A super-capacitor alone is not going to do it.
In order to increase the current, you need to increase the voltage.
Any capacitor can sustain current and voltage for only so long. The current and voltage will drop exponentially with time.
You need to determine how long the electromagnet needs to be energized. This will determine the size of the capacitor to use. Then you need to allow sufficient time for the capacitor to recharge.

An electromagnet can run on two voltages, an activation voltage and a holding voltage.
The holding voltage is lower than the activation voltage and allows the electromagnet to run cooler if is continuously energized.
This is where a capacitor could help but you still need that initial high voltage to give it that first kick.

MrChips thank you for the time reading, much appreciated. Its just a sudden blink of an eye as to say, on then off, be great if could be repeated a second or to after. Have tried these regulators from 3v - 60v no joy... As said , Not too much idea, seen builds on you tube, but using microwave transformers lol, need to be as thin as possible. Thank you. Would be willing to pay As banging head on wall for over a year

 

You will never see much Lifting-Power using Triple-As or a 9-Volt Battery,
neither can supply very much Current, and therefore,
they will be weak in creating significant Magnetic "Power",
and they will run dead rather quickly.
.
.
.

 

If you told us what you are trying to accomplish, we could probably help.

 

Are you attempting to build a magnetic launcher?

 

whatever you try to do should have some numbers in it.... with recognized units.

"as thin as possible" is not a number.
"more force" is not a number.
"using regulator 3-60V" is not clear either - what is the current that those regulators can supply and for how long. what is the coil resistance that you want to use?

please describe what are you trying to do. if you are interested in launching things using puny source power like batteries you already mentioned, this will not work if projectile is an anvil. the energy is quick and easy way to check if something is even possible.

 

MrChips thank you for the time reading, much appreciated. Its just a sudden blink of an eye as to say, on then off, be great if could be repeated a second or to after. Have tried these regulators from 3v - 60v no joy... As said , Not too much idea, seen builds on you tube, but using microwave transformers lol, need to be as thin as possible. Thank you. Would be willing to pay As banging head on wall for over a year

Regardless of what you want, we live in a world where we can't always get what we want. Simple calculations will open up a world of understanding. Too bad you don't seem motivated to acquire that rudimentary skill.

 

As banging head on wall for over a year

Ouch! That hurts!
Instead of banging head on wall, come here and post your questions for quick answers.

 

Are you attempting to build a magnetic launcher?

Nailed it YES

Regardless of what you want, we live in a world where we can't always get what we want. Simple calculations will open up a world of understanding. Too bad you don't seem motivated to acquire that rudimentary skill.

Ponders where did one ask for calculations? Is asking for advise if something may be possible Hmm i take it this is a help forum? Think rudimentary skills in attitude are needed.......

 

Ouch! That hurts!
Instead of banging head on wall, come here and post your questions for quick answers.

HA Thanks, As mentioned, had made my own coil, works ok for that effect, to push more current though a coil. Say hypothetically You place a match box, (with magnetic shim in its bottom), to a specific place board, press button on transmitter will repel it a foot or so, using say 4 AAA batteries and supercapacitors? The coil will be fitted into a routed out space just under board surface for max strength. Thanks again...

 

We may have to return this guy's Help-Payment !!!

The guys in this forum average around ~50-years of experience in Electronics,
with additional experience in many other fields.
They are astoundingly patient and nice considering what they put-up with daily,
so be just ever so slightly humble and You will receive excellent advice for free.

A "Magnetic-Shim" is not an adequate definition.
A piece of steel-sheet-metal will not be repelled at all, instead it will be attracted to the Electro-Magnet.

The largest and strongest Neodymium-Magnet that will fit in your "Match-Box" will give the best results.

The Mechanical arrangements of the Coil and the Magnet are critical,
and should be taken into consideration first,
before attempting to increase the Electrical-Power.

A picture or a drawing would go a very long way in helping us to understand what You want.
.
.
.

 

Thank you, Total understanding what the guys on here do, and greatly appreciated. My self is a member of a few forums, that do photo repairs, coloring from B&W ETC. Some times can take days to do one edit. But hey ho,. Also a magician, which i aid in charity work Magic for Therapy, for those with learning dificuilies and who are less fortunate. As mentioned i made a coil without iron core, as it had to fit into as tight space without been seen. The item that wanted to repel was shimmed with a magnet, opposing that of the electro magnet. When current applied, it replelled the shimmed piece adiquately for what needed. If its possible then to magnify that current for a split second with capacitors. board depth 20-25mm, routered out so the electromagnet sits 1 mm below surface, containing the electronics...https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YY7qTopzijk Scroll to 5:51.. sort of idea Thanks

 

What you need to do is to charge a large value capacitor (you don't need a supercap).
Then you need to turn on a power MOSFET to the load.
What you need to do now is to work on the required voltage and current, and the physical design of the coil (wire size, number of turns and core material, and strength of the magnet) to make it work.

 

How does putting an iron core inside the coil take more space than leaving it empty? Did you pack the electronics (or something else) into the center of the coil? An iron core would greatly increase the magnetic field where it is needed. A drawing showing the physical layout of the whole device would go a long way toward getting better answers.

 

Nailed it YES

Ponders where did one ask for calculations? Is asking for advise if something may be possible Hmm i take it this is a help forum? Think rudimentary skills in attitude are needed.......

Without calculations you are just throwing pasta at a wall to see if it will stick. I'm not optimistic about your prospects.

 

Ahh ok so it is possible

Without calculations you are just throwing pasta at a wall to see if it will stick. I'm not optimistic about your prospects.

Calculate what? Without knowing if its possible in 1st instance whats to calculate! Appreciate if you would step back, as no help what so ever. Much appreciation for those willing to shed some light, its appreciated. Maybe look here, what im after, with same size coil, but not that powerful, and lot smaller build.

 

Ahh ok so it is possible

Of course it is possible. Did you watch the video and observe the voltage and current required?
He refers to 400 V and 100 A.

Ah yes. That is why we do calculations before venturing into unknown territory.

 

Appreciate if you would step back, as no help what so ever.

you did not figure out how to extract wisdom from that post and that is your loss. still that irks me.
this is a public forum and everyone is free to say what they want. if you find something offensive, contact moderator.

Calculate what? Without knowing if its possible in 1st instance whats to calculate!

power and energy are everything...! and that means calculations.

otherwise you would not know if throwing the pizza at the wall will even reach the wall. if you are going to ask for help on an engineering forum, try providing meaningful data. no idea what " ‎YUYUE21 electromagnet " or mass of the projectile is or why do we need to know that launcher is triggered by 433MHz radio.

if you want goals, you need to learn to focus... focus of this discussion should be launching projectile and nothings lese, anything else is simply noise / distraction.

you may want to calculate energy required to lift object of mass m to height h while working against Earths gravity g.

E=mgh

so far the only thing we know is g=9.8m/s^2. another thing that this equation shows is when energy is limited (always is), so achievable height depends on mass (unless you can change gravitational constant of Earth). so to get larger h, m must be smaller. and you did not state the mass or the shape of the object, or desired height projectile is to reach. all of those are key factors in evaluating if this is even possible with power sources at your disposal.

Using energy, can also determine initial velocity using kinetic energy

E=m*v^2/2

for example if the acceleration occurs during initial 30mm of the launch you can determine how long time is needed to accelerate from zero to specific target velocity (obtained before). and with that, one could determine what power is needed.

P=dE/dt

etc.

but the time to apply the acceleration is very short (acceleration distance is much shorter than height that projectile needs to reach). this means that power need to be large. so your choice of power source is already a limitation and - we don't even have the rest of the information.

the point is that without measurements and calculations one knows diddly squat about what the experiment is capable of. two minutes of calculations can save you hours or weeks of frustration and wasted resources. and nobody said that you must be one performing the calculations. but by refusing to provide data, you are also preventing everyone else from doing so. so, why are you sabotaging your own project? and if you are not going to quantify key data, why bother with asking for help in an engineering forum? because without data, throwing pizza at the wall seems rather on the point.

 

you did not figure out how to extract wisdom from that post and that is your loss. still that irks me.
this is a public forum and everyone is free to say what they want. if you find something offensive, contact moderator.



power and energy are everything...! and that means calculations.

otherwise you would not know if throwing the pizza at the wall will even reach the wall. if you are going to ask for help on an engineering forum, try providing meaningful data. no idea what " ‎YUYUE21 electromagnet " or mass of the projectile is or why do we need to know that launcher is triggered by 433MHz radio.

if you want goals, you need to learn to focus... focus of this discussion should be launching projectile and nothings lese, anything else is simply noise / distraction.

you may want to calculate energy required to lift object of mass m to height h while working against Earths gravity g.

E=mgh

so far the only thing we know is g=9.8m/s^2. another thing that this equation shows is when energy is limited (always is), so achievable height depends on mass (unless you can change gravitational constant of Earth). so to get larger h, m must be smaller. and you did not state the mass or the shape of the object, or desired height projectile is to reach. all of those are key factors in evaluating if this is even possible with power sources at your disposal.

Using energy, can also determine initial velocity using kinetic energy

E=m*v^2/2

for example if the acceleration occurs during initial 30mm of the launch you can determine how long time is needed to accelerate from zero to specific target velocity (obtained before). and with that, one could determine what power is needed.

P=dE/dt

etc.

but the time to apply the acceleration is very short (acceleration distance is much shorter than height that projectile needs to reach). this means that power need to be large. so your choice of power source is already a limitation and - we don't even have the rest of the information.

the point is that without measurements and calculations one knows diddly squat about what the experiment is capable of. two minutes of calculations can save you hours or weeks of frustration and wasted resources. and nobody said that you must be one performing the calculations. but by refusing to provide data, you are also preventing everyone else from doing so. so, why are you sabotaging your own project? and if you are not going to quantify key data, why bother with asking for help in an engineering forum? because without data, throwing pizza at the wall seems rather on the point.

It was pasta, NOT pizza. Throwing pasta at a wall is traditional, pizza – not so much. The tomato sauce is hard to remove, and the cheese could require a cold chisel and a sledge.