Strantor's plan to save america

TBayBoy

Joined May 25, 2011
148
You give the poor a break,the big money would take more advanage.
Show me a poor person,you see people walking the streets,they end up
sleeping some where.They turn down shelter,because the shelters
want there monthly checks.These people belive more in freedom than
you.Would you like to be free.
Wow, you really need to explain this more.
 

TBayBoy

Joined May 25, 2011
148
OK, how to fix the economy in North America, and reset the economic balance world wide.

Step 1. Stop shopping at walmart.

no need for step 2.
 

Thread Starter

strantor

Joined Oct 3, 2010
5,543
OK, how to fix the economy in North America, and reset the economic balance world wide.

Step 1. Stop shopping at walmart.

no need for step 2.
I can see how a canadian would be scared by my proposition; canada exports more into the U.S. than China does. I say we erase the border and boycott china together. Walmart would be the first place to start, but trying to get the whole country to act as a team would be impossible. an executive solution must be implemented.
 

MrChips

Joined Oct 2, 2009
23,505
I can see how a canadian would be scared by my proposition; canada exports more into the U.S. than China does. I say we erase the border and boycott china together. Walmart would be the first place to start, but trying to get the whole country to act as a team would be impossible. an executive solution must be implemented.
Disagree.
The first thing we do is scrap NAFTA.
 

TBayBoy

Joined May 25, 2011
148
I can see how a canadian would be scared by my proposition; canada exports more into the U.S. than China does. I say we erase the border and boycott china together. Walmart would be the first place to start, but trying to get the whole country to act as a team would be impossible. an executive solution must be implemented.
Who ever said I was scared of your proposition, the cross border economy of both countries is huge, both countries benefit by the arrangement.

The problem is we both want to make big wages, and have cheap products.

Mind you, if the US did impose a huge import tax on things, well since Canada is the largest supplier of oil to the US... well... you know where those pump prices will go.
 

GetDeviceInfo

Joined Jun 7, 2009
1,845
I can see how a canadian would be scared by my proposition; canada exports more into the U.S. than China does. I say we erase the border and boycott china together. Walmart would be the first place to start, but trying to get the whole country to act as a team would be impossible. an executive solution must be implemented.
We've been on that doorstep many times. Canada exports it's raw resources to the US, and in turn purchases imported retail, providing the US with the value added component. We've courted other countries with this relationship, to the disproval of the US. Trade wars, and trade isolation will do nothing to boost economies.

I personally think that the US citizenship needs to unite and direct thier government (via voting poles) to haul in the debt through massive spending cuts, and, take thier corproate culture to task. Asking the populace to pay out to government and corporate spending will further drain the common man's ability to purchase.

What you haven't shown is the tipping scale where absurd incomes are increasing for the few, whilst poverty grows and the middle income earners bear much of the brunt. Give America back to the Americans, and they will work thier way toward a balanced ecomony. Turn off the fantasy reality TV show bullshit so the young generation can develop some real skills.
 

loosewire

Joined Apr 25, 2008
1,686
Reality,have you has any fun lately or any activties to do,
like diving and other fun stuff. I like the picture show phones.
Like MrChips I have built parade floats,I was next door to
clydesdale horses once,at Calle Ohco In Miami. I learn the
word bano,when you got to go..you have to find a house
on 8th street.
 
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tom66

Joined May 9, 2009
2,595
Same for the UK.

We used to have a car industry. Rover made cars that no-one wanted to buy. Then they died out. We seem to be out of touch with ourselves. Now we just import cars.

Our deficit is huge, we need to manufacture more.

But maybe cheap goods aren't the way forward?

Those are cheap because Chinese labour is cheap and there's no getting around that.

Otherwise they wouldn't be cheap.
 

shortbus

Joined Sep 30, 2009
8,558
While I don't shop at Walmart, I don't understand why its always vilified? If its for the Chinese products it sells, how is that their fault? They sell what big name companies provide them. Its the whole of corporate North America thats at fault.

The same corporations that we give gigantic tax breaks to are the same ones sending the jobs to China. Its not the retailers doing it .

How about the oil companies? They make multi-billions of profit, and pay next to no taxes and get gigantic subsidies from the same government that they pay no taxes to.
 

MrChips

Joined Oct 2, 2009
23,505
While I don't shop at Walmart, I don't understand why its always vilified? If its for the Chinese products it sells, how is that their fault? They sell what big name companies provide them. Its the whole of corporate North America thats at fault.

The same corporations that we give gigantic tax breaks to are the same ones sending the jobs to China. Its not the retailers doing it .

How about the oil companies? They make multi-billions of profit, and pay next to no taxes and get gigantic subsidies from the same government that they pay no taxes to.
What would you change? You have to begin someplace and that place is YOU. You can't blame others for the state of the world.

The solution is plain and simple. Stop shopping. Conserve. Live with what you've got. Adopt voluntary simplicity as your way of life. Stop depleting the world's resources and damaging the environment. Love your neighbor.

Everything else will fall into place.
 

Thread Starter

strantor

Joined Oct 3, 2010
5,543
Who ever said I was scared of your proposition, the cross border economy of both countries is huge, both countries benefit by the arrangement.

The problem is we both want to make big wages, and have cheap products.

Mind you, if the US did impose a huge import tax on things, well since Canada is the largest supplier of oil to the US... well... you know where those pump prices will go.
I don't devalue the importance of our trade with Canada. we are joined at the hip, both geographically and economically. Canada is the biggest purchaser of US exports. Canada is also the source of most US imports. Both countries would suffer from a cease in trade; that's why I proposed a merger. It's kind of silly to have a border there anyways. We have nearly the same economy (except I believe that Canada still exports more than it imports, mainly to the US) So I don't think either country would "get the short end of the stick"

I personally think that the US citizenship needs to unite and direct thier government (via voting poles) to haul in the debt through massive spending cuts, and, take thier corproate culture to task. Asking the populace to pay out to government and corporate spending will further drain the common man's ability to purchase.
Please disregard post #6; I wish to strike it from the record. The point of my plan has little to do with the U.S. national debt. It is about the working man. Even if we were to magically eliminate the debt tomorrow, things would not get better for the middle class working man. Spending cuts, etc would be good for the numbers on paper but the real problem is jobs. Back in the 50's and 60's A man could graduate high school (or maybe not) and go to work and make enough money to support a family, buy a house, own a car. not so any more. Supply and demand applies to jobs as well as goods. job pay has not kept up with inflation because jobs are in little supply and high demand. Why are jobs in little supply? because we keep shipping them overseas! We need to get them back. Joe blue collar loses his job at the tire plant because big tire corporation moved the plant overseas. joe has been making tires for 20+ years and has no other skills; his only immediate option is to go into the "growing" service industry, but that industry (the only "growing" industry left) is already flooded with other poor souls who are willing to work for peanuts because they don't have any other immediate options.

What you haven't shown is the tipping scale where absurd incomes are increasing for the few, whilst poverty grows and the middle income earners bear much of the brunt. Give America back to the Americans, and they will work thier way toward a balanced ecomony. Turn off the fantasy reality TV show bullshit so the young generation can develop some real skills.
Agreed. video pacification has a lot to do with the state of society. And big guys at the top also contribute. have a look at this. Apple has more cash that America and most of it is in steve jobs' bank account. But even if we were able to force all these big wigs to dump their personal and corporate expense accounts into the U.S. economy, the effect would only be temporary and wouldn't fix the job crisis.
Same for the UK.

We used to have a car industry. Rover made cars that no-one wanted to buy. Then they died out. We seem to be out of touch with ourselves. Now we just import cars.

Our deficit is huge, we need to manufacture more.

But maybe cheap goods aren't the way forward?

Those are cheap because Chinese labour is cheap and there's no getting around that.

Otherwise they wouldn't be cheap.
Chinese labor is cheap because they are a communist country. The government decides what the workers make, and the government decides that they should be paid in peanuts. Interesting that we turn a blind eye to their communism just because it benefits us. We are so anti-communist that we won't let our own citizens venture within 12 nautical miles of cuba, but we base our economy on China's cheap labor and government approved exploitation of their citizens. No, cheap labor is not the future, but were are headed there nonetheless.

While I don't shop at Walmart, I don't understand why its always vilified? If its for the Chinese products it sells, how is that their fault? They sell what big name companies provide them. Its the whole of corporate North America thats at fault.

The same corporations that we give gigantic tax breaks to are the same ones sending the jobs to China. Its not the retailers doing it .

How about the oil companies? They make multi-billions of profit, and pay next to no taxes and get gigantic subsidies from the same government that they pay no taxes to.
Agreed. but it's the whole of north americans in their "give it to me now, and CHEAP!" mentality that allows the corporate to get away with it. We are so blinded by our greed that we would never let my plan, or any other plan to be implemented to fix the economy if it caused us a brief period of discomfort. no, we will continue on this path until we have bled the economy to it's last drop and it's too late to turn around.
What would you change? You have to begin someplace and that place is YOU. You can't blame others for the state of the world.

The solution is plain and simple. Stop shopping. Conserve. Live with what you've got. Adopt voluntary simplicity as your way of life. Stop depleting the world's resources and damaging the environment. Love your neighbor.

Everything else will fall into place.
MrChips, you're an idealist, and admirable. Somewhat naive though if you think you can persuade an entire populace to do the right thing just because it's the right thing to do. As I've stated, the people are not going to change; an executive action is needed.
 

Wendy

Joined Mar 24, 2008
22,428
Guys, you talking about purchasers greed and how bad Walmart is, but you miss an important point. There are a lot of people (I include myself) that could not get by without the discounts Walmart offers. I'm not talking luxuries, but basics like food.

I mentioned it before, but IMO the real problem is the impunity companies can ship jobs overseas. It may end up costing more, but with more jobs basic pay will go up, not to mention the relief our social services will get.

However, corporations rule this country. If we don't get control of our country back from special interests I don't see it improving.
 

MrChips

Joined Oct 2, 2009
23,505
I don't buy my food from Walmart just because of costs. I go to our local farmers market and buy fresh vegetables from a local organic grower. I know that I pay twice the price food would cost at Walmart. But I also know that my vegetables are grown without the fertilizers and chemicals produced from oil. I also know that my money is going directly to support our local farmer and his family and not some multinational conglomerate like Monsanto, Cargill or Walmart.

I am not trying to persuade anyone else to do this. This seems the right thing for me, it works for me and I am happy doing it with a clear conscience.
 

Thread Starter

strantor

Joined Oct 3, 2010
5,543
Guys, you talking about purchasers greed and how bad Walmart is, but you miss an important point. There are a lot of people (I include myself) that could not get by without the discounts Walmart offers. I'm not talking luxuries, but basics like food.

I mentioned it before, but IMO the real problem is the impunity companies can ship jobs overseas. It may end up costing more, but with more jobs basic pay will go up, not to mention the relief our social services will get.

However, corporations rule this country. If we don't get control of our country back from special interests I don't see it improving.
Yes I'm in the same boat. I'd bet that we would both make more money if the power were shifted a little bit from our companies to us. How could we get more power? Well, I'd bet that if all kinds of new jobs started sprouting up around the country due to the migration of jobs back into America, our companies would realize that we are no longer over a barrel and could easily jump ship for a better opportunity. Right now we are lucky to have the jobs that we have and our employer know that; why should they pay so that we can afford to shop places other than walmart?

I don't buy my food from Walmart just because of costs. I go to our local farmers market and buy fresh vegetables from a local organic grower. I know that I pay twice the price food would cost at Walmart. But I also know that my vegetables are grown without the fertilizers and chemicals produced from oil. I also know that my money is going directly to support our local farmer and his family and not some multinational conglomerate like Monsanto, Cargill or Walmart.

I am not trying to persuade anyone else to do this. This seems the right thing for me, it works for me and I am happy doing it with a clear conscience.
Well, you are doing us all a great service, but you are one of a very small minority of people who, or can do such things. I appreciate you.
 

JoeJester

Joined Apr 26, 2005
4,390
I'd bet that we would both make more money if the power were shifted a little bit from our companies to us.
You could do a major power shift and start your own business. Then you'd have 100 percent stake in all the profits or losses. Barring that, those "generating the funds", like technicians at a repair shop, will be supporting the non-technical admiistrative staff, the non-technical managerial staff, and the stockholders.

You could gain more power by being a stockholder in your company, assuming it's a publically traded corporation. At risk is your hard earned money.
 

TBayBoy

Joined May 25, 2011
148
However, corporations rule this country. If we don't get control of our country back from special interests I don't see it improving.
You bet, both our countries over the last couple of decades have changed laws to make it easier for these groups to get money into the political parties. When governments are more concerned with generating donations and scoring political points than actually running the country, we all loose.

Oh, what North America could do if only for a month every politician in both countries worked together.
 

TBayBoy

Joined May 25, 2011
148
I don't devalue the importance of our trade with Canada. we are joined at the hip, both geographically and economically. Canada is the biggest purchaser of US exports. Canada is also the source of most US imports. Both countries would suffer from a cease in trade; that's why I proposed a merger. It's kind of silly to have a border there anyways. We have nearly the same economy (except I believe that Canada still exports more than it imports, mainly to the US) So I don't think either country would "get the short end of the stick"
Economically we both would find ourselves in the midst of an economic lion. Our societies however have some incompatible beliefs that probably could not be overcome.
 

Thread Starter

strantor

Joined Oct 3, 2010
5,543
You could do a major power shift and start your own business. Then you'd have 100 percent stake in all the profits or losses. Barring that, those "generating the funds", like technicians at a repair shop, will be supporting the non-technical admiistrative staff, the non-technical managerial staff, and the stockholders.

You could gain more power by being a stockholder in your company, assuming it's a publically traded corporation. At risk is your hard earned money.
Yes, an I desire to do just that. I desire to be a small business owner. Only problem is I need a large sum of money to get started (I know that statement can start a whole other debate).
I don't know what my business will be though. If I choose to make a product (which is what I really want to do), and have any success at it, then some big corporation will steal my idea, manufacture it overseas, and run me out of business. That relegates me to some kind of service, which likely means I'll be repairing some big corporation's crappy product which was made overseas. Oh well, at least by repairing things, I won't be contributing to hemorrhage of money to places other than America.
I am a stock holder in my company. I'll never be on the board; that would mean I would be one of the rich people at the top. Being a stock holder in my company gives me just as much power as I would I have if I invested in a company overseas, the way I look at it (unless I'm missing something). Especially since I work for a "global" company, of which most of the revenue is generated overseas, so really I am sending my money elsewhere.
 

Thread Starter

strantor

Joined Oct 3, 2010
5,543
Economically we both would find ourselves in the midst of an economic lion. Our societies however have some incompatible beliefs that probably could not be overcome.
What incompatible beliefs? You would be surprised what people can be persuaded to accept if the media spins it properly. Especially now with how uninformed and complacent the masses are.
 
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