This constitutional republic is messy at times. 1776 - revolution ... 1789 First State signed the Constitution. Lots of compromise in that Constitution.

I use to tell my charges ... Read the Constitution. After all, you swore to defend that document agaist all enemies. At the very least, you ought to know what your sworn to defend.

 

No the republicans have had contol of the house and senate for decades. Thats why Bush as president could invade countries and do anything he wanted. Obama being a dem. president with a Rep. congress and house can do nothing. Thats whats so stupid about the whole system. Obama's hands are tied by the republicans terrified of loosing those 100 million dollar jobs once the leave office. So they shoot down anything he wants to do off principle alone. They don't even read his idea's. The republicans have shot themselves in the foot and become the hated party of the country. Were gonna see Dems get elected all over the country next year and then the dems and obama can actually start to get to work. (THIS IS NOT A REP BASHING THREAD) When the roles are reversed its the same thing. A rep president can do nothing with a dem house and senate.

 

max: You are certainly entitled to your own opinion. However, you are not entitled to your own facts.

Nuf said.

 

So what's the point in going to the voters booth if your vote really doesn't mean anything anyway?

As swung Florida in 2000 so swung the nation. The margin of victory in 5,825,043 votes cast between the two major parties was just under .01% of the total.

537 voters made the difference. Had just 268 voted the other way the outcome would have changed.

 

Uhhh, goes back to electoral college again.

I've kept my mouth shut because I have very political feelings. This thread started off well, a discussion of the mechanisms of the USA government. The moment discussion veered off into politics it became ripe for closing. Lets keep it nonpolitical as possible, shall we?

 

As swung Florida in 2000 so swung the nation. The margin of victory in 5,825,043 votes cast between the two major parties was just under .01% of the total.

537 voters made the difference. Had just 268 voted the other way the outcome would have changed.

so, you're saying that had 268 people (regular citizens) voted the other way, the electoral voters (who are party loyal) would have voted the other way/against their party?

 

When you live with the potential for something undesirable happening, just because it hasn't happened yet, you take the control out of your own hands.

So, Strantor, have you been successful at removing the potential for undesirable happenings in your life? If so, you'd be the *first ever*. Congrats.

 

so, you're saying that had 268 people (regular citizens) voted the other way, the electoral voters (who are party loyal) would have voted the other way/against their party?

I was agreeing with you until I got to "against their party." I have no idea what you mean by that.

 

I was agreeing with you until I got to "against their party." I have no idea what you mean by that.

there have been a few people say that electoral voters are party loyal and almost always vote for their party's candidate. My question all along has been that if that's the case, then why bother vote? does your vote effect the eletoral voters vote? we've already seen on the government's website where it says that the electoral voters don't have to vote in accordance with the popular (regualr citizens) votes.

 

I won't carry out a political debat with you here, but I will present some facts.

No the republicans have had contol of the house and senate for decades.

actually, republicans have only held the house for a total of 16 years since 1933

and now for the senate:
http://www.congressol.com/party-strength-senate.html

democrats have held the senate majority @73% since 1933.

Obama's hands are tied by the republicans ...So they shoot down anything he wants to do off principle alone.

He passed a mammoth health care bill and stimulus package fairly easily if I remember correctly. Also bailed out several private companies; all this agianst the republican collective wish.

The republicans have shot themselves in the foot and become the hated party of the country. Were gonna see Dems get elected all over the country next year and then the dems and obama can actually start to get to work.

I can agree with that; yes, we will see.

 

All the stuff you said he passed is known to be recalled and judged unconstitutional, or what ever. In the end its just a bunch of really rich people all fighting for their corporate sponsors. A lot like nascar with no cars.

 

All the stuff you said he passed is known to be recalled and judged unconstitutional, or what ever. In the end its just a bunch of really rich people all fighting for their corporate sponsors. A lot like nascar with no cars.

maybe. Lets get back to the electoral voters. what do you think? Does your vote matter if there is an electoral voter between you and the elction?

 

NO an electorial college does whats in "their" best interest.

 

maybe. Lets get back to the electoral voters. what do you think? Does your vote matter if there is an electoral voter between you and the elction?

I feel my vote matters. A states/districts electoral votes go to the electors of the party who receives the popular vote. Yes, I'm voting for the elector and not the candidate, but in about half the states the electors are legally obligated to vote for their party's candidate - so it's the same thing. In states were the electors are free of this legal obligation they are so carefully chosen by their respective parties that it's essentially a non-issue.

Edit: I'll add that to me the most concerning aspect of the electoral college is the current winner-take-all system used by most states. Where you live can really matter. Voters in small population states carry more influence than voters in large population states. In a hypothetical one-resident state that resident votes with the same power as a voting block constructed from 5% of the population of California (over 2 million people!) That makes Wyoming the most powerful voting state per capita (by almost 4:1 over California.)

 

That makes Wyoming the most powerful voting state per capita (by almost 4:1 over California.)

Wyoming has 3 electorial votes. California has in the 50s. Last time I checked, California has the most electorial votes ... which is why politicians always visit CA.

Here's an article that NY is backing out of voting for a the requirement for their electors to go for whoever has the popular vote. "Unintended consequences" was cited as the reason.

http://www.syracuse.com/have-you-heard/index.ssf/2011/01/new_york_assembly_stalls_popul.html

 

Guys I still don't see what the citizens vote for POTUS does. Is it just a number to show on TV? I have yet to see a connection between a citizen's vote at the poll booth and the final result. seems the final result comes from the electors' votes. It has come to my attention in this post that we can can vote for the electors, but why have I not heard of this vote before? The vote for the electors seems a great deal more important than the actual vote for the president. It has also come to my attention in this post that there is not always a citizen's vote for the electors.

An example was given in florida where the popular vote was very close and it was suggested that had only a few hundred citizens voted the other way, the presidential election would have been different. from what I see that is not the case. http://law.onecle.com/florida/electors-and-elections/103.021.html In florida, the governor selects the electors; there is no citizens vote for the electors, AND the the electors are required (under oath) to vote for their party's candidate. So the way I percieve this, the governor secured the Florida's vote before the election ever started. the people's votes meant nothing. even if the entire state had voted for the other candidate, it wouldn't have mattered.

I must be missing a huge piece of the puzzle. can someone clarify?

thanks.

 

I must be missing a huge piece of the puzzle. can someone clarify?

In many states both the Democrats and the Republicans pick candidate electors; the vote for President decides which parties electors are sent to vote in the electoral collage.

Note: The third parties must also pick candidate electors in those states if they are running a candidate in the Presidential race.

Tim S.

 

In many states both the Democrats and the Republicans pick candidate electors;...

What democrats and republicans? senators? politicians? civilians? is there a vote? I'm trying to isolate the connection between the people's vote and the outcome of the election.

the vote for President decides which parties electors are sent to vote in the electoral collage.

What? how can the outcome of the election decide who the electors are, when the electors decide the outcome of the election?

 

What? how can the outcome of the election decide who the electors are, when the electors decide the outcome of the election?

Asked and answered. Go look up how Texas selects it's electors as that's where you live and it's how your vote counts. And stop being a troll.

 

Asked and answered. Go look up how Texas selects it's electors as that's where you live and it's how your vote counts. And stop being a troll.

You are right. That was answered back in post #6. I must have missed it.

No, the people elect other people who comprise the Electorial College. The Electorial College elects the President and Vice President.

Here's my texas law you had me look up: http://www.sos.state.tx.us/elections/laws/2004ecqa.shtml :

Thirty-four (34) electors are selected at the Texas conventions of major and minor parties. Independent and write-in presidential candidates designate their 34 electors. The 34 electors are equal to the total number of the Texas delegation: thirty-two (32) U.S. Representatives plus two (2) U.S. Senators equals 34. When people vote in the November general election, they are actually voting for a slate of electors, as opposed to directly voting for presidential candidates.

So, right you are again.

When I first read the Florida law I saw this:

1) The Governor shall nominate the presidential electors of each political party...

and and got hung up on it. Everything I read after that didn't sink in.

So, after re-reading the florida Law I saw this:

The names of the presidential electors shall not be printed on the general election ballot, but the names of the actual candidates for President and Vice President for whom the presidential electors will vote if elected shall be printed on the ballot in the order in which the party of which the candidate is a nominee polled the highest number of votes for Governor in the last general election.

So, I get it now, even florida; Thanks guys for leading me to it.

It was certainly never my intention to be a troll. I think you might be reading something into my posts that I didn't intend to convey. This was a genuine case of misunderstanding/mental block on my part and I'm sorry if I offended you or anyone else.