Reactionless drives...

ZCochran98

Joined Jul 24, 2018
351
I thought the EMDrive had finally been killed off. The thing is the embodiment of "pull yourself up by your bootstraps." It doesn't work. I would ask "why won't it go away," but then I remember the "conspiracy theory" bit....
 

Thread Starter

cmartinez

Joined Jan 17, 2007
8,776
It's official... the EM Drive is dead... long live the quest for reactionless drives!.

“When power flows into the EmDrive, the engine warms up. This also causes the fastening elements on the scale to warp, causing the scale to move to a new zero point. We were able to prevent that in an improved structure. Our measurements refute all EmDrive claims by at least 3 orders of magnitude.
 

Thread Starter

cmartinez

Joined Jan 17, 2007
8,776

nsaspook

Joined Aug 27, 2009
16,330
https://www.scientificamerican.com/article/surprises-from-general-relativity/#:~:text=For example, in a curved,fall even in a vacuum.
In general relativity, the structure of spacetime becomes distorted (that is, curved), producing what we perceive as the force of gravity. Whereas Newtonian gravity involves only space, relativistic gravity also involves time. This distortion of both space and time leads to effects such as one known as frame dragging: a rotating body (such as Earth) exerts a slight force in the direction of its rotation on other nearby objects (such as orbiting satellites). Loosely speaking, the spinning Earth drags spacetime itself around slightly. More generally, the velocity of motion of a mass influences the gravitational field it produces. Frame dragging and the glider are both examples of this phenomenon.

The swimming effect arises from non-Euclidean geometry, and the relativistic glider is a consequence of indissolubility of space and time. Other such phenomena may remain to be recognized and understood within the inscrutable equations of general relativity. Mr. Everard and other disciples surely have more adventures in store.
http://web.mit.edu/wisdom/www/swimming.pdf

The robot model (it's not real curved space) experiment was clever but it has the same thrust limitations of a photon rocket. Coulomb friction and the geometric phase change forces are limited by the same physics.
 
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Thread Starter

cmartinez

Joined Jan 17, 2007
8,776
It won't work any better than a photon rocket.
That photon rocket again ... it took me a long LONG time to figure out what you meant. But I think I finally get it.

Please correct me if I'm wrong:
It's simple newtonian physics. "To every action there's always an equal and opposite reaction". One of the equations for motion is m1·v1 = m2·v2 ... So if one wants to obtain a reaction without expelling mass in the process, and considering that mass and energy are interchangeable, one could use an equivalent amount of pure energy (i.e. photons) instead of mass. And considering that E=mc² , said amount of energy would have to be humongous.

My hope is that maybe in the future there could be a work around through newly discovered physics, probably involving dark matter. But that's mere speculation. And as you've already said, it would have to be compatible and built on top of what we already know.
 

nsaspook

Joined Aug 27, 2009
16,330
That photon rocket again ... it took me a long LONG time to figure out what you meant. But I think I finally get it.

Please correct me if I'm wrong:
It's simple newtonian physics. "To every action there's always an equal and opposite reaction". One of the equations for motion is m1·v1 = m2·v2 ... So if one wants to obtain a reaction without expelling mass in the process, and considering that mass and energy are interchangeable, one could use an equivalent amount of pure energy (i.e. photons) instead of mass. And considering that E=mc² , said amount of energy would have to be humongous.

My hope is that maybe in the future there could be a work around through newly discovered physics, probably involving dark matter. But that's mere speculation. And as you've already said, it would have to be compatible and built on top of what we already know.
The work around will likely be things like this: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AIMStar

http://ffden-2.phys.uaf.edu/213.web.stuff/Scott Kircher/microfusion.html

 
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