RC-single push button forward reverse motor

Thread Starter

Jwhitt

Joined Apr 8, 2018
6
Hi everyone,

Please, kind souls of the circuit design world, help me answer one of both of the following:

What training materials would I need to study to design the desired circuits below
  1. How specifically can I design the desired circuits below


Circuit 1 (using 120V AC winch from harbor freight, this motor uses a diode bridge to convert AC to DC).

  1. Operate the winch with a single push button from a remote control and allow the option to operate in momentary or latching (ideally the latching circuit will latch on the remote, so if the battery dies or the remote lost connection the winch would stop operating)
A. In latching - press the button to start, motor starts moving forward, press button again and motor stops, press button again and motor starts to reverse. Button is pressed again and the motor stops. Button is pressed again and the motor moves forward. If the power is cut to the system then the fist button push would make the motor go.

B. In momentary - press and hold the button and the motor moves forward. Release the button and motor stops. Then press and hold the button and the motor goes in reverse. Release and the motor stops. Press and hold the button and the motor goes forward.
Circuit 2

Same circuit, except a 12V “2500 lb” DC winch from harbor freight is used
 

MisterBill2

Joined Jan 23, 2018
9,292
The operation mode that is suggested is extremely unsafe and prone to cause injuries. The only safe way to operate a hoist or a winch is with separate momentary controls, so that motion ceases when the control is released.
In addition, the described operation is also unsafe because it is not indicated which way the winch would drive when the button is pushed. So every aspect of the requested control scheme is unsafe by all standards.
 

crutschow

Joined Mar 14, 2008
27,736
Agreed.
That configuration would be very unsafe and likely would lead to a nice lawsuit if someone was injured using it.
 

LowQCab

Joined Nov 6, 2012
1,104
Controlling a powerful Machine, like a Winch, with a Remote-Control-Dongle is a BAD-IDEA.

An extremely Heavy-Duty, Industrial-style, Hand-held, Dual-Push-Button, Control
is the only way to go.
.
.
.
618uzwqzhWL._SL1125_.jpg
 

MisterBill2

Joined Jan 23, 2018
9,292
There are industrial strength radio control systems used for cranes and on heavy rescue tow-trucks, but they are neither simple nor cheap. They use digital coding and multiple fail-safe schemes. AND they are quite complex and rather expensive.
In addition, they do not provide any latched functions.
 

shortbus

Joined Sep 30, 2009
8,814
Same circuit, except a 12V “2500 lb” DC winch from harbor freight is used
Why not use a Harbor Freight 2 button remote? That is the only way to do this safely. With the 2 different buttons it will only move the way you want when you want.

To the other members, I think you are mixing up terms here. He is talking about a WINCH not a HOIST. A winch is for a rolling or skidding movement. A hoist is for lifting.
 

Thread Starter

Jwhitt

Joined Apr 8, 2018
6
So how about explaining the intended application of such a control scheme? THAT may be rather interesting.
Thank you for highlighting the safety concerns. Limit switches are on the list of items to include at a later time. I just wanted to get started on the core of the project to learn and build on.



A winch was selected not for its beefiness, but for the ease of finding a motor that is already reduced to a slow speed and relatively inexpensive, and even though it is slow I plan to reduce the speed more with PWM.



For the applications, they are variable. I really like the ease of a single button garbage door. The one difference I’d like to build in is, when the system is powered down it will always start by feeding put. The latching function can be neglected.
 

MaxHeadRoom

Joined Jul 18, 2013
23,632
The one difference I’d like to build in is, when the system is powered down it will always start by feeding put. The latching function can be neglected.
Is there any safety conditions to consider in this application?
The revert to feeding when powered up, could be by virtue of an unlatched relay condition when power is off.
 

MisterBill2

Joined Jan 23, 2018
9,292
A garage door opening system is certainly NOT one that should start motion when power is restored. That could easily reult in a garage door opening at a very wrong time, allowing others to shop at will in an open garage. And a garage door starting to close after a power interruption could very eaily result in damage to items, as well as injury or death.
I have never been comfortable with the alternate action control arrangement for residential garage doors. Consider that no commercial establishment has single button controls. Three buttons, STOP, OPEN, and CLOSE. Not only is that safer, it also allows opening the door partially for ventilation or floor sweeping. In addition, the controls system is much simpler.
 

Thread Starter

Jwhitt

Joined Apr 8, 2018
6
A garage door opening system is certainly NOT one that should start motion when power is restored. That could easily reult in a garage door opening at a very wrong time, allowing others to shop at will in an open garage. And a garage door starting to close after a power interruption could very eaily result in damage to items, as well as injury or death.
I have never been comfortable with the alternate action control arrangement for residential garage doors. Consider that no commercial establishment has single button controls. Three buttons, STOP, OPEN, and CLOSE. Not only is that safer, it also allows opening the door partially for ventilation or floor sweeping. In addition, the controls system is much simpler.
it isn’t suppose to start moving when re-energized. Just when the button is pressed it will move out again.
 

MaxHeadRoom

Joined Jul 18, 2013
23,632
Did you want to principally use it to run in either direction until a means of stop, i.e. L.S.?
Or did you want both limit and manual P.B. i.e. stop or start at any time?
 

MaxHeadRoom

Joined Jul 18, 2013
23,632
One way if there is no danger to personnel or equipment, is one of the keyfob transmitters and receivers off ebay, I picked one up for well under $10.00.
A small 8 pin Picmicro would handle all the logic sequencing, also revert to initial state on power off then on.
Probabally the way I would look to do it.
 
The single button method has appealed to me for drapery control. A little different than you described.

Short -push: Start in last direction.
Short push while moving: Stop
Double-push while moving: stop, wait, reverse direction and start.
Double-push while stopped - nothing

Hit a limit, stop, set next direction opposite the limit.

Push&hold - might be set current limit in each direction.

It's not appropriate for a hoist or crane.
 

Thread Starter

Jwhitt

Joined Apr 8, 2018
6
The single button method has appealed to me for drapery control. A little different than you described.

Short -push: Start in last direction.
Short push while moving: Stop
Double-push while moving: stop, wait, reverse direction and start.
Double-push while stopped - nothing

Hit a limit, stop, set next direction opposite the limit.

Push&hold - might be set current limit in each direction.

It's not appropriate for a hoist or crane.
Did you make this circuit? Would you give suggestions on how to learn to do this?
 

MisterBill2

Joined Jan 23, 2018
9,292
Three buttons for a garage, or other vertical door, is the very simplest and most reliable scheme. And also about as safe as it can be, if an obstruction sensor is included. And really it even beats the single button for convenience because of always being able to select an actin with one button push. Using a remote fob would require two buttons, one for open and one for close, or, a bit safer, one held to driveupand one held to drive down. And always include the obstruction sensor, unless it is a security door. One may choose to close the dooor on a dangerous intruder.
 
Did you make this circuit? Would you give suggestions on how to learn to do this?
I never did. I did automate drapes for a SO back in the 80's. I had machine shop access so, it was easy,
I made wedges to put on the rods. Then an adjustable
limit switch. In/out of the wall would hit the wedge.
A 24 VAC AC synchonous motor, ladder chain for 2x+6" or so the window opening. The motor could slide and maintain tension on the chain. 20 RPM, 40 oz-in is a good motor size.

There was a little control box that had man/auto, and open/close/off. A simple timer drove a relay. An autonomic timer would have been better.

the control scheme would help if I would have used pulses (edges) from an automation system, I think.

It should be a job for a microcontroller.
 
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