I'm not trying to invent a better solder tip, just better than what I have, which is an old gnarly piece of copper with all the coating gone. It is a very old soldering iron. But when I cleaned up the end on a lathe, it worked very nicely. I can basically have a new tip anytime I want by sacrificing a small amount of material. I am just wondering if pure silver is any better than pure copper in this duty, regarding how long I need to go between rehoning the tip. And it won't break the bank trying.

I am not a skilled solderer. I am not good at keeping the tip clean. So being able to have a clean tip in a couple of minutes is pretty handy.

I do have another iron, with temperature control, and a brand new screw-in bit for it. But I seem to have broken a connection to the temperature sensor, which is why I resurrected this old one, to repair the new one. But it worked so nicely I haven't bothered fixing the new one yet.

 

Copper DOES sublime during soldering.

I only know that a tip made from silver, I SUSPECT would sublime during soldering.

My dictionary isn't working well with this word. Can you explain how you are using it?
http://www.dictionary.com/browse/sublime

 

My dictionary isn't working well with this word. Can you explain how you are using it?
http://www.dictionary.com/browse/sublime

I would use it as:
Your use of the phrase, "my dictionary isn't working well with this word" was a SUBLIME way of saying, "you are misusing this word."

 

how is the material the tip is made of going to make the solder work better?

Thermal mass. Thermal density. Thermal conductivity.

If a low density metal is heated to 750˚ and the point is small there's little thermal contact, and therefore little thermal conductivity. With a higher density metal at the same temperature, same size tip, low conductivity will play a part. However, the metal's ability to deliver that heat will make a very small difference. Probably nothing I could detect with my super x-ray, thermally calibrated, densitometric whiskers, I don't think I'd be able to tell much of a difference. Even with a very highly conductive material under the same exact conditions, I doubt I'd be able to detect any change in the way the solder flows.

If I could analogizificate for a moment (bushism), it's like when you wash and wax your car. Well, back in the day when we actually waxed cars, you swore it drove better. Moved through the air just a bit easier, the ride felt just a little better. But were any of those sensations legitimate? Or were they just the placebo effect? I suspect the effect of using a different metallic tip to someone who believes it would be better would actually see better results. Having been around solder for many years, I know it takes heat transfer to the joint. Good flux. Clean surfaces, and not too much heat sinking. Soldering ground plane's is one of the hardest things to do. That's why they have pre-heaters that warm the board almost to the point where it's too hot to touch. Then the solder manages to flow into the joint better because there's more thermal mass in the board and more thermal energy.

All in all, I, too, would like to hear how this turns out. But more so with some actual quantifiable data and not just someone's opinion. While I respect people's opinions, I do realize that opinions are like arse holes. Everybody has one and many stink.

 

The use of sublime? Correct me if I'm wrong (which I'm sure someone will do) is when material from one surface vaporizes and migrates to a new location. This can occur in open air, in the absence of air or even in a fluid environment. To sublimate material means to give up atoms and transfer them from one spot to another. Aluminum Vapor Deposition can be considered a sublimation process.

From the web:

verb
1.
(psychol) to direct the energy of (a primitive impulse, esp a sexualone) into activities that are considered to be socially more acceptable
2.
(transitive) to make purer; refine
noun
3.
(chem) the material obtained when a substance is sublimed

I was using the transitive verb. In the case of #2, sublimation is used as a purification process. But it can also be used to blend materials as well.

Maybe I should stop using such big words.

OK, let me put it this way: Silver from the solder iron will leach out into the solder. Geez! I guess I should have said it that way. Now I feel "Pretentious". Awe, geez! I hope that one isn't going to start something.

 

The use of sublime? Correct me if I'm wrong (which I'm sure someone will do) is when material from one surface vaporizes and migrates to a new location. This can occur in open air, in the absence of air or even in a fluid environment. To sublimate material means to give up atoms and transfer them from one spot to another. Aluminum Vapor Deposition can be considered a sublimation process.

From the web:

verb
1.
(psychol) to direct the energy of (a primitive impulse, esp a sexualone) into activities that are considered to be socially more acceptable
2.
(transitive) to make purer; refine
noun
3.
(chem) the material obtained when a substance is sublimed

I was using the transitive verb. In the case of #2, sublimation is used as a purification process. But it can also be used to blend materials as well.

Maybe I should stop using such big words.

OK, let me put it this way: Silver from the solder iron will leach out into the solder. Geez! I guess I should have said it that way. Now I feel "Pretentious". Awe, geez! I hope that one isn't going to start something.

Making purer is a definition but, for an expert, it means making purer through the use of sublimation. Also, making purer is the antonym of "blending with other materials" because that makes the silver less pure.

Sublimation is a process where a solid is heated and, without going through a liquid state, goes directly to a gas and is condensed onto a cool surface. In the lab, a simple sublimation is done by setting a solid into a Petri dish, covering with the mating Petri dish, setting on a hot plate and a wet paper towel on the top dish (to act as a condenser).

 

Sublimation is a process where a solid is heated and, without going through a liquid state, goes directly to a gas

That's the one I am familiar with but I can't imagine how silver would become a gas while it is covered with solder. In addition, the silver is not getting more pure as it forms an alloy with the solder. It just sounds all backwards to me.

 

I must be missing something in all of this. No matter what the tip is made of, it is still the irons element that makes the heat. Once the tip gets to that temperature, the elements temperature, how is the material the tip is made of going to make the solder work better? Since most quality irons use an iron/steel plated tip, why not just make a DIY tip from steel in the first place? No matter what material the tip is made of, it's the "tinned" layer that is actually touching both the work and the solder.

I'm sure some one will tell me where I'm wrong about this. Like #12 I have an old soldering iron that was used for more years than I can remember and never had to change the tip, because it's iron plated copper and I clean and re-tin it before putting it away. And it is just a cheap little Radio Shack one.

Hi,

For an example of why the tip material matters so much is this: imagine you have a tip that is 1/8 inch diameter and 10 feet long, and another tip that is 1/8 inch diameter and 1 inch long. Which do you think would make a better soldering iron tip?
The heat flux has to travel up the tip to get to the end and the end is what does the soldering in most cases. If the heat originates at the element which is at the other end, the heat has to travel much farther on a long tip than on a short tip. There is heat loss all along the way too, from heat radiated out from the sides, and once the tip touches the joint it immediately cools and so it has to wait for that heat to replenish. That means there is a temperature gradient along the length of the tip, where the element end is the hottest and the tip end is the coolest, especially after it touches a cool object.

So the short answer is that the temperature gradient along one inch is much less than along 120 inches, so the tip remains hotter with the shorter tip.

Materials also play a part because their thermal conductivity can be much different. For copper it is pretty good, but for brass it can be as little as 1/4 of copper. That means we can see a much larger temperature gradient along even just one inch which means brass can not deliver the power as well as copper. If we cut the tip down to 1/4 inch however and leave the copper tip at 1 inch, then the two become more similar.

The long but more accurate answer shows up in several solutions to the heat equation. The setup boundary and initial conditions is where we have a rod of a certain length, and heat at a certain temperature at one end and a sink at the tip end, and some heat loss along the length of the rod. Due to the different materials, we would use a different coefficient of thermal diffusivity for each material and that would lead to different solutions (temperatures at the tip end at different times with different materials) for each material.

Side note:
I've used the iron clad tips in the past too and they do last longer. Once they pit though the erosion eats into that pit more and more. A thicker coat is best but hard to evaluate before you buy the tip

 

Well, GopherT, yeah, you're probably right. More accurate and eloquent than me. I accept your course correction.

The most experience I have with actual sublimation was when I worked with satellites. Back in the young days of space flight and espionage, it was discovered that certain materials were sublimating and the sublimate was gathering on camera lenses, thus making them opaque and unusable. That's where I learn't what I thought I learn't. I'm willing to admit you're righter than me. (I'm never wrong, just not always as right as the truth)

Be that as it may, I still think silver from the tip will dissolve and contaminate the solder joint. Even if I used the wrong word - or used it incorrectly.

Anyway, that's my opinion.

 

That's the one I am familiar with but I can't imagine how silver would become a gas while it is covered with solder. In addition, the silver is not getting more pure as it forms an alloy with the solder. It just sounds all backwards to me.

The silver may disappear over time but it is not subliming. It is dissolving or eroding. Eroding is not exactly the right word but it gets the point across. The liquified metal (melted solder) can infiltrate the grain boundaries of the silver and form amalgams. As the amalgam forms, the density changes and the grain is Stressed and those segments crumble away.

 

I still think silver from the tip will dissolve and contaminate the solder joint.

I believe you are correct.

(I'm never wrong, just not always as right as the truth)

I suspect you are female.

 

Hey GopherT: I noticed you changed your profile picture to the squirrel from Sponge Bob Square pants. Why a squirrel when you go by "GopherT"? I actually liked the older Go-Go-Gopher from - geez, I can't remember the cartoon, it's been that long. I THINK it was "Go-Go-Gopher".

I think some brain cells fell out with the hair follicles.

 

I noticed you changed your profile picture to the squirrel

Is that a squirrel or just a really classy looking gopher?

Does Sponge Bob actually have a squirrel living, "under the sea"?

 

Is that a squirrel or just a really classy looking gopher?

Does Sponge Bob actually have a squirrel living, "under the sea"?

His "squirrel" statement is just typical! So, @Tonyr1084 is essentially saying "you all look alike". What a specie-ist.

 

Is that a squirrel or just a really classy looking gopher?

Does Sponge Bob actually have a squirrel living, "under the sea"?

Also, I originally found it charming that you were a Harry Potter fan but now I am beginning to wonder - a SpongeBob fan as well (to the degree that you are familiar with the Sandy character?). A real original.

Now, if you like the SpongeBob humor, the cartoon, Archer, is kind of in the same vein but more towards the R rating.

 

I am beginning to wonder - a SpongeBob fan as well

Nope. I think I saw 10 minutes of Sponge Bob, then decided I didn't like it.
There's a sponge wearing shorts, a squid, and some kind of yellow blob creature.
The story line is suitable for a 7 year old.
Not my style.

 

Nope. I think I saw 10 minutes of Sponge Bob, then decided I didn't like it.
There's a sponge wearing shorts, a squid, and some kind of yellow blob creature.
The story line is suitable for a 7 year old.
Not my style.

It was on all the time when my kids were little - I realized it was much better with beer.

 

Hey GopherT: I noticed you changed your profile picture to the squirrel from Sponge Bob Square pants. Why a squirrel when you go by "GopherT"? I actually liked the older Go-Go-Gopher from - geez, I can't remember the cartoon, it's been that long. I THINK it was "Go-Go-Gopher".

I think some brain cells fell out with the hair follicles.

Yes, it was Chief Runningboard from Go-Go-Gophers. Someone actually started a thread about my avatar change in Off Topic.

 

I am beginning to wonder - a SpongeBob fan as well

My question remains. Is there a squirrel in the Sponge Bob cartoons?

Never mind. I googled it. Sandy Cheeks. A squirrel who apparently got her name from sitting on the beach until she got sandy cheeks.

Does not resemble Gopher's latest avatar.

 

Materials also play a part because their thermal conductivity can be much different.

Not trying to start an argument but understand. Doesn't a higher thermal conductivity also mean it will loose it's heat faster? Once the correct temp is reached, won't it also cool down faster? I was always under the assumption that thermal conductivity just meant it would heat up faster from the heat source. Take at example of cookware, aluminum heats up faster than cast iron. But when taken off of the stove it also cools down faster. I know it's not the same as a soldering iron, but an example that I'm very familiar with and can be easily measured due to the larger size.