Powered mirrors - how to make them automatically open and close

Thread Starter

V3gatron

Joined Mar 15, 2022
6
You've been waiting a long time to say that, I'm sure ;) ... I've not been posting much in the last few years.
Hello I'm not sure if this is the right way to contact you but I installed powerfolding mirrors on my car and connected a relay Box that goes with the mirros. There is only one 12 V wire that controls the mirrors for opening and closing. Every time this wire receives a 12 V pulse the mirrors will extend all the way and stop or close all the way and stop. The reason why I need a 12 V pulse is because because if I give it a constant 12 V the mirrors will open and close rapidly without stopping I need to figure out how to build something that will give me a 12 V pules when I start the car and another 12 V pules when I shut off the car. Thanks
 

MisterBill2

Joined Jan 23, 2018
13,841
Add a 12 volt relay between the ignition on line and the accessory on line.The relay will operate once as you switch the engine on and again when you switch it off. That is about as simple as I can come up with. But be sure to have a push button in parallel with the relay contacts for the times the system gets confused. But mostly that should work.
 

shortbus

Joined Sep 30, 2009
9,766
Add a 12 volt relay between the ignition on line and the accessory on line.The relay will operate once as you switch the engine on and again when you switch it off.
Huh? When the ignition switch is in start all things are off that aren't needed for the car to start and run. When start is no longer on accessory is re-energized. So what is going to the relay you want to add? How will it get a pulse to retract the mirror?
 

MisterBill2

Joined Jan 23, 2018
13,841
In the run position both ignition and acc are energized, and when switching on, from off, ACC is on first, so there is voltage between off and on, and then when switching off, also there is a time when one is on and the other is off. START is not part of the discussion. and the fact that stuff switches off during cranking does not matter. And a relay with no diode will operate with either polarity.
IT would probably also work to use a capacitor in series with the relay coil so that the relay wil ony operate for a short time when the ignition is switched on. Then the capacitor will be charged up, and pulse the relay again when it is switched off.


You certainy are quick to throw stones, Shorty!
 

shortbus

Joined Sep 30, 2009
9,766
In the run position both ignition and acc are energized, and when switching on, from off, ACC is on first, so there is voltage between off and on, and then when switching off, also there is a time when one is on and the other is off. START is not part of the discussion. and the fact that stuff switches off during cranking does not matter. And a relay with no diode will operate with either polarity.
IT would probably also work to use a capacitor in series with the relay coil so that the relay wil ony operate for a short time when the ignition is switched on. Then the capacitor will be charged up, and pulse the relay again when it is switched off.


You certainy are quick to throw stones, Shorty!
Again with the stones. Asking a question of your interpretation of how things work is certainly not throwing stones. I can do that if you want me to, billyboy.

When you turn the ignition switch to the run position without going to start, the ignition and accessories are both energized, Accessory is all by its self only when accessory is chosen, run uses both. And did you see where in the first post the TS said-
The reason why I need a 12 V pulse is because because if I give it a constant 12 V the mirrors will open and close rapidly without stopping
So your idea of turning on the relay with accessory is not going to work, since accessory is on when it is running. Then where is the 12V pulse coming from when the engine shuts off? Off means no 12V not even a short pulse in most cars.

I'm thinking his mirrors have built in limit switches that aren't getting used by him. Just my WAG. Since there was no link to what he has we can't know for sure.
 

MisterBill2

Joined Jan 23, 2018
13,841
The relay operates from the difference in voltage as the key is moved. Acc comes on first, ign is still low, so the current flows through the relay coil, just a short pulse as the switch is turning. Then, switching it off, the ign goes low while the ACC is still high.
IF, however, the connections are instead to a computer module then no, it would not work. The condition to produce the pulse happens ONLY while the switch is moving between positions.
 

ThePanMan

Joined Mar 13, 2020
522
Two things I would assume: First the mirrors are powered from a constant source, not the ignition/accessories line. There then should be a control wire that when powered from ig/acc the mirror should extend to full extension and then some limit switch would stop it. When the control wire loses power then the mirror should retract to full retracted and stop via another limit switch.

There must be more to the story than just a single 12V wire. We're missing part of the story. A single 12V relay with a single wire (assuming chassis grounded maybe?).
 

shortbus

Joined Sep 30, 2009
9,766
Well it seems like the TS isn't coming back. But a quick Google, which I didn't do before gave the answer. They are tied into the door locks not the ignition switch, plus they have a push button switch for other times you need to retract them.
This is a link to a DIY kit but most factory installed ones they say work the same, and makes more sense than tying into the ignition switch. Since the lock/unlock is usually a pulse not a constant power on or off. Read the paragraph called "features".
https://xgenauto.com/products/electric-power-folding-mirror-motor-kit-accord-10th-gen-retrofit-kit
 

ThePanMan

Joined Mar 13, 2020
522
The relay operates from the difference in voltage as the key is moved. Acc comes on first, ign is still low, so the current flows through the relay coil, just a short pulse as the switch is turning. Then, switching it off, the ign goes low while the ACC is still high.
Are you sure of this? It doesn't make sense to me. Unless the mirrors move so quickly so as to deploy in that brief 1/10th of a second you cross the ACC into the START portion of the key (a.k.a "Ignition") I don't see how the mirrors are going to get power from what you describe. They must be controlled by some other means, say the BMS (Body Management System). I would also expect that either there are limit switches in the mirrors OR there's some sort of feedback for the BMS to extend them fully and retract them fully. Something like the windshield wiper motor that has a PARK feature. When you shut the wipers off if the motor is not in the "HOME" position then the motor remains powered until the motor reaches the PARKED setting. But I don't have any experience with retractable mirrors so I really can't argue any points on it. But at least I can guesstimate when someone is feeding me knowledge and when someone is feeding me sand.

From what the TS stated, if powered constantly the mirrors will extend and retract and extend and retract until power is removed. If extending - power would need to be interrupted at the exact right moment in order to stop the mirrors from returning to the retracted position. Same but opposite would be true for the retract feature. Something's got to be controlling it. Not just two wires, hot and ground.
 

SgtWookie

Joined Jul 17, 2007
22,227
Hello I'm not sure if this is the right way to contact you but I installed powerfolding mirrors on my car and connected a relay Box that goes with the mirros. There is only one 12 V wire that controls the mirrors for opening and closing. Every time this wire receives a 12 V pulse the mirrors will extend all the way and stop or close all the way and stop. The reason why I need a 12 V pulse is because because if I give it a constant 12 V the mirrors will open and close rapidly without stopping I need to figure out how to build something that will give me a 12 V pules when I start the car and another 12 V pules when I shut off the car. Thanks
I'm not on the forum regularly, and I'm not the only person who can help you.

However, with what little information you have given us, with no other inputs than a single control wire that needs a pulse, it seems that a simple normally open (NO) pushbutton switch will be your easiest solution, between your control wire and +12V, with a 10k Ohm resistor connecting your control wire to ground. When you want the mirrors to toggle states extend/retract, push the button briefly.

Since you haven't given complete information, I can't advise you on automatically extend/retracting them, as it will be difficult to determine which state the mirrors are currently in. There must be more signal inputs/outputs from this relay box, but you haven't given us the details.
 

Tonyr1084

Joined Sep 24, 2015
7,210
MY assumption is that the mirror has a constant 12V source and a 12V control. When the control sees 12V the mirror should extend fully and stop. That presupposes there's internal limit switches. When control goes away the mirror - in order to retract - has to have a constant 12V source. Hence, when the control goes away the mirror should fully retract. The limit switch will need to stop the mirror in the fully retracted position.

You can't have a momentary signal that drives the mirror. If you use the control to drive the mirror then there's no way of controlling exactly how far out (or in) the mirror will move during some said "brief" pulse period. Aside from the limit switches I'm thinking there's a relay or electronics package that controls extension and retraction of the mirror. But in order to retract, again I point out that the mirror needs to have power after the key is turned off. Therefor a constant 12V source.

There should be at least three wires. +12V, chassis ground and control. Until we know exactly what we're working with - all bets are just guesses. Mine included.
 
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