Cleaned the pond yesterday and discovered the UV lamp was not lit. Thought it was a dead bulb. Changed it with a brand new bulb. No response. Tried a second bulb, 3rd & 4th - same thing, no response. The bulbs have self starters inside them. Tried using a ballast from a ring lamp (you may remember another thread looking for a switch concerning the ring lamp. I changed from fluorescent to LED). The lights did not respond at all. The ring lamp still lights using the ring light ballast (RLB) but the dual tube UV lamps do not light. FOUR BRAND NEW BAD BULBS? Well, that Could be the case. But before jumping to any conclusions - would like to hear from my brothers and sisters on this matter. For the record, the filaments inside the dual tube lamps did not glow at all.
View attachment 358374
Took these readings. Don't know what could be at issue here.
View attachment 358375
The lamps have no resistance between pins. Not "Zero" ohms, shows open. Could it be four bad bulbs?
View attachment 358379

 

Problem solved. Thanks for your help. It's four bad bulbs. Just tested a larger bulb from my HVAC Germicide lamp kit - everything works.

Don't buy cheap from Amazon. Going to place a complaint right now. But it might be too late because I bought these as spares. Time to replace a dead bulb with what? Another dead bulb? Brand new dead bulb?

GEEZ!

 

@MaxHeadRoom if you're a moderator please go ahead and delete this one. Actually solved my problem on my own.
If you're not a moderator - please pass this note on to someone who can delete this thread. I just wish there were a way I could delete my own threads. Not that it's important, but it would save some trouble for others.

 

WAIT A BIT!!! Some gas discharge lights need a trigger pulse applied outside the tube, to start conduction. Similar to a xenon flash tube. The same scheme may work with your non-lighting tubes.

 

Thanks Bill but I have no way of adding a trigger pulse inside the filter housing, in the pond. Besides, I've returned the defective lamps.

 

My point was that they may simply have been totally misrepresented as to what they were. That seems to be very common with some sellers.

 

That's possible but I know xenon tubes and the metal ring they have around one end of the flash tube. These lamps have no such ring. Inside the base of older burned out lamps was a starter bulb that would force current through the series filaments. Once those filaments got hot the switch would open and current would then pass through the gas filled tube.

While I'm not going to say it's not possible to excite a lamp similar to xenon tubes - I'm dubious of its ability to have worked in my case. Nevertheless, parts have been returned. Four lamps for $18 on Amazon whereas buying from a bulb dealer, bulbs can cost 9 or 10 bucks plus 13 bucks shipping. Four bulbs at $8.99 plus $12.95 would have cost $48.91. The Amazon price should have been a clear clue that they were chinesium made.

 

Hello,

I know of the starterless fluorescent lamps.
Those have a strip along the tube.
See this add for a picture:
https://www.amazon.nl/-/en/DSTOCK60-TL-RS-fluorescent-compatible-Philips/dp/B0CN3DZDQW

Bertus

 

I have used that same external trigger wire in an experimental setup to flash fluorescent lamps tubes. The result was that it did make them light if a DC voltage not high enough to ignite them were already applied. unfortunately the tubes do not behave like xenon flash tubes. So the experiment showed what does not work.

The tubes shown in the post#8 link may exhibit better starting in lower voltage or cold starting conditions, but that strip is not suitable for a high voltage pulse.

 

Bill, inadvertently you've mentioned something important; Temperature. We're discussing a pond. In winter time it can be quite cold. Water can approach 38˚F (3.3˚C). Surface of pond can even freeze over. For those understanding ponds - you may already know that if the surface should totally freeze over then ammonia gasses can't escape. I have a pump with a stretch of heat tape. It keeps the pond from becoming frozen over. The module comes on at 40˚F (or so I'm told). So I would suppose it's possible for the pond to freeze but not completely close off the surface. Carp can hibernate through the winter, as they have done so for the last 13 years. Yes, I have 13 year old gold fish. (Carp family). Who'd have imagined they could live that long.

Since the system is already set up for a self starting style lamp I will be sticking to that arrangement. However, I've wondered in the past why some bulbs burn out very quickly. The cold may be the explanation. Should there be a brief interruption in power the lamp can go cold. The lamp may have a hard time starting, which means the filaments may be burning for a lot longer waiting for the lamp to light, if at all. Remember, we're talking about UV-C lamps, not white lamps with a phosphorous coating. If it's cold enough the filaments could burn out. I've had more failures due to filament failure than any other failure. These brand new bulbs, in the warmth of the house, should have no problem lighting up. Even as my UV-C HVAC Air Purifier bulb has demonstrated, the ballast meant for a 5W bulb can still light a 13W bulb. But only for brief test periods.

So now I have until next spring when I return the pond to full filtration will I have to worry about getting good bulbs. Certainly not from Amazon! Cheap bulbs are cheap. It's right there in the name "Cheap". I can think of another word that starts with C and ends with P that describes what I got from Amazon. And the seller can no longer be contacted via the listed contact means.

Thanks to Bill, I may now have a better understanding of why that happens so frequently. Thanks MisterBill2.

 

Interesting side note on pond freeze: When I first put in the pond it was a 55 gallon pond. Later I upgraded to 125 gallons. This year I've dug it out and put in a pond liner, and estimate the gallons to be around 450. Here's the interesting thing: The 55G pond always froze over. That was early on, and I remember temperatures that sometimes dropped below zero F. When I put the bigger pond in, once in a while it would form a layer of ice on the top. Maybe because it was bigger and had greater thermal capacity, or maybe it has not been as cold. I've noticed years ago I used to have to run the snow blower several times a year. In the past decade every winter I had to HOPE to get enough snow to run the blower. Last year I didn't even have to run it at all. Perhaps a sign of climate change. Certainly summers have been getting hotter. Experts have repeatedly spoken a phrase I'm hearing far more often "Last month was the hottest on record." Getting warmer and warmer. A quite chilling thought. No?

 

@T1084 65 years ago I mad a small fish pond for my younger sister. At the time we lived just a few miles from New Orleans and so it was a warm climate . A fire ant colony moved in next to the fish pond. I discovered that hitting the ant hill with a broom would put a bunch of ants into the water. The fish ate the ants and grew much larger rather quickly. Evidently fire ants are good fish food. AND free for the sweeping.

For the UV lights: I have installed A LOT of instant-start ballasts for florescent lights and they do not depend on filament heat up to start the tube full brightness. Possibly that system can work with your UV tubes. It lights the exact same tubes as used the starter previously.

 

The filter is a commercially available thing. It comes the way it comes. Modifying it would take more work than I care to engage in. And I'd need to make it weather proof too. Suppose I could do that but it's not the amount of work I want to do.

I HATE fire ants. Gaud they have a painful bite. And they're aggressive too.

 

With a long handled broom it was safe to sweep a bunch of the fire ants into the goldfish pond. I fed them daily, and they grew to about six inches in one summer. Evidently fresh fire ants are good goldfish food.
I did not realize that the device with the UV lamps was a commercial package. THAT would be a lot of work to modify.
But the advice about the non-filament ballast is still valid for other applications. Not needing to use the tube filament heat allows bulbs to work many more hours. AND even a bulb with an open filament will still light. So it is a benefit there, also.
I hope that this response is not too far off topic.

 

With a long handled broom it was safe to sweep a bunch of the fire ants into the goldfish pond. I fed them daily, and they grew to about six inches in one summer. Evidently fresh fire ants are good goldfish food.
I did not realize that the device with the UV lamps was a commercial package. THAT would be a lot of work to modify.
But the advice about the non-filament ballast is still valid for other applications. Not needing to use the tube filament heat allows bulbs to work many more hours. AND even a bulb with an open filament will still light. So it is a benefit there, also.
I hope that this response is not too far off topic.

Not off topic. At least not too much.
My fish got as big as the size of the pond would allow. This year I put a much bigger pond and expect the fish to grow even more now that their pond is bigger.
I've put ants in my pond. The fish ignored them. Ignore grasshoppers and June bugs too. You'd think they would at least eat the legs. They're not big enough to eat the whole insect in one gulp. Maybe 4 to 5 inches nose to end of the tail. Just put three more littler gold fish in the pond. Too big for the bigger fish to eat.
As for solving the problem of having UV in the pond - that will be solved in the spring time when I'm putting things back together for the season. Today is "Hang Christmas Lights" day. Expecting 60's (F). Average is 52˚F.

 

WARM THERE!!! it was 29 here as I scraped snow and ice off the windshield at 3:30 AM. Still working part time, occasionally.
I suspect that these may have been a different kind of goldfish, back in 1964, I think it was. Long ago and far away in an environment that no longer exists. Progress will pave over paradise with cheap asphalt pavement every time.
No more pond for the goldfish. Oh Well.