PICBasic Pro Download Bootloader to PIC HELP

Discussion in 'Embedded Systems and Microcontrollers' started by PICNewbee, Apr 1, 2017.

  1. PICNewbee

    Thread Starter Member

    Mar 31, 2017
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    How do I do this?

    Have not run across it yet in manuals.

    Reading all three manuals from left sidebar in Rescources on MELabs website.
     
  2. shteii01

    AAC Fanatic!

    Feb 19, 2010
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    Use device called Programmer? PICkit 2 or 3 for example?
     
  3. PICNewbee

    Thread Starter Member

    Mar 31, 2017
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    "Use device called Programmer? PICkit 2 or 3 for example?"

    Yes. Pointing to using a PICKit 2 the first time so far.

    Slim chance that it might be done with serial.

    Operating in an information vacuum here.

    Seeing if someone has done this before to ask if the bootloader is

    included or do we have to go get it first?

    Like I says the manual has zero about loading bootloader and

    getting a message 'bootloader installed successfully.".
     
  4. Sensacell

    Moderator

    Jun 19, 2012
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    Provide more contextual information.
    There are hundreds of PICs and thousands of boards made with them.

    What is the target device you are trying to program?
     
  5. PICNewbee

    Thread Starter Member

    Mar 31, 2017
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  6. Sensacell

    Moderator

    Jun 19, 2012
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    Ouch. This product looks very poorly documented and supported, you might get it working...

    Bootloaders must be written and compiled for exactly the setup you are using: Any tiny little thing wrong and it wont work- very frustrating.
    Unless the unit comes with a bootloader already programmed into the chip? Again, the documentation sucks.

    If you have a PICKIT2 or 3, you could program it, but not without making your own cable to get the pin-out correct, unless they include this?

    Buy a dev board from Microchip, they spent millions getting the software and hardware right, ME Labs, not-so-much.
    The support forums for Microchip have lots of Q and A to help you debug stuff.

    In summary:
    Learning to program these things is hard enough without having to struggle with a poorly documented board, life's too short.
     
  7. ErnieM

    AAC Fanatic!

    Apr 24, 2011
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    A bootloader is a program you must first install into a micro using a programmer so code updates and such do not require a programmer.

    But the egg always comes before a chicken so you need that programmer.

    This board you chose works with something they call the EPIC programmer. I suggest you look into that or some comparable programmer and forget this bootloader idea. Probably best to chuck the EPIC thing and get a PICkit but they wired the EPIC socket so it is not comparable without a pin adaptor socket.

    Their programmers are rather expensive compared to PICkits and I don't see they have in circuit debugging ability. You want that.

    Bootloaders are not development tools.
     
  8. PICNewbee

    Thread Starter Member

    Mar 31, 2017
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    "they wired the EPIC socket so it is not comparable without a pin adaptor socket."

    Thank you for pointing that out.

    Here's what an Epic programmer is.

    http://store.melabs.com/prod/epic/EPICA.html

    Okay. I think it's best to get a PICKit 2. Split the difference here.

    Will NOT get one of their proprietary programmers.

    But do get a programmer supported in PICBasic Pro menu's.
     
  9. ErnieM

    AAC Fanatic!

    Apr 24, 2011
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    What advantage does using the IDE for PBP have? Does it do in circuit debugging? If not then it is not recommend for use.

    I once used PBP and found I has some serious issues such as not flagging bad syntax and report successful compilation. Microchip gives away very good C compilers so I don't see the need togonthrd party and pay for one. If I was to pay to use Basic I would use Oshonsoft Basic as it is very good and quite inexpensive.

    There are Development boards that use PICkits directly, similar price.

    I have both the PICkit II and III (I also have the PICkit I but that is a diffent thing) and while I prefer the way II works over III it is the III that is compatable with all newer PICs and is still supported by Microchip.

    So if you are getting one PICkit get the III.
     
  10. PICNewbee

    Thread Starter Member

    Mar 31, 2017
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    "What advantage does using the IDE for PBP have?"

    It's a stepping stone from Basic Stamp to PIC's.

    "Microchip gives away very good C compilers"

    I wasted quite a bit of time with their 'Getting Started' tutorials.

    They were written like the person just wanted to get it over with and

    go do something else. I fell into the Code Configurator quagmire.

    I suspect that templates are the old way.

    I can get some traction with PICBasic Pro.

    MPLAB is too much too soon for me.
     
  11. JohnInTX

    Moderator

    Jun 26, 2012
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    @ErnieM is giving you excellent advice here. As for what it takes to get up to speed on the Microchip platforms, the time you spend messing around with getting third party stuff to work would be much better spent in getting up to speed with MPLAB, XC8 and debugging with PICkits. Even with things like Code Configurator (which I guess is getting better, I don't use it) if you are going to do anything worthwhile, you eventually will have to come to grips with the internals of the PIC and its peripherals. Might as well start now.

    Good luck!
     
  12. PICNewbee

    Thread Starter Member

    Mar 31, 2017
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    Thanks!

    Well so far it's looking like the bootloader is just for MELabs D-Stick and

    their one Experimenter board.

    They guy the wrote their IDE offers a 20 device bootloader.

    I want confirmation that it 'plays well' with PICBasic first before I pay 10 pounds (how ever much that is).

    Across the board it looks like they would like you to use one of their programmers.

    That reminds me to check and see how much they want for full featured compiler.

    I know CSS is rough! Very pricey.





    .
     
  13. PICNewbee

    Thread Starter Member

    Mar 31, 2017
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    Thank you for the posts.

    MELabs responded today.

    'Self programming' D-Stick and Experimenter's board have programming circuitry on them.

    There is no bootloader in PICBasic Pro.

    They did have a Serial Programmer but it is no longer available.
     
  14. ErnieM

    AAC Fanatic!

    Apr 24, 2011
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    The D-stick for $29.99 looks not too shabby, but keep in mind when you go to "after development, simply replace the D-Stick with the pinout-compatible, production-ready PIC16F1937" Keep in mind you still will need a programmer to get that PIC16F1937 to run your code.

    Is that the "LAB-X1 Experimenter Board (Assembled)" for $199.95? That's very expensive. Still needs a programmer.
     
  15. PICNewbee

    Thread Starter Member

    Mar 31, 2017
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    ""after development, simply replace the D-Stick with the pinout-compatible, production-ready PIC16F1937"

    That is a good take on how these evaluation boards work.

    I'm sort of catching on that coders settle in with a 'favorite chip'.

    Is that the case?

    I think I might have bought enough PIC's then.

    I've been using different boards and software so have chips that are supported by them.

    "
    "Is that the "LAB-X1 Experimenter Board (Assembled)" for $199.95? That's very expensive. Still needs a programmer."

    I'm getting to know them at MELabs. They seriously need a Hobbyist's corner like CSS and there C Compiler has.

    I'll mention that to them.

    Maybe the D-Stick is there and PICBasic Student Edition is their 'Hobbyist's Corner'.:)
     
  16. ErnieM

    AAC Fanatic!

    Apr 24, 2011
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    Absolutely not. I've used everything from tiny SOT-23-5 8 bit core with 100 instructions to hundred pin PIC32's.

    Specialization is for insects.
     
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  17. tracecom

    AAC Fanatic!

    Apr 16, 2010
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    absf likes this.
  18. ErnieM

    AAC Fanatic!

    Apr 24, 2011
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    tracecom: that looks like a very good breadbording tool. I especially like the attention to the mechanical details to get the board and the programmer to sit flush with your work surface. Do you supply any tutorials with this?
     
  19. tracecom

    AAC Fanatic!

    Apr 16, 2010
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    Ernie,

    Thanks for the compliment.

    I can answer most any question about the use of the adapter, but my PIC skills are weak, so I certainly don't know enough to write an actual programming tutorial. I have done a little PIC programming, but only very rudimentary stuff; instead, I have focused my efforts on the PICAXE family (for which I have an improved version of the adapter.)
     
  20. PICNewbee

    Thread Starter Member

    Mar 31, 2017
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    Could you guys look at this schematic and let me know what this does?

    https://www.olimex.com/Products/PIC/Programmers/PIC-PG1/

    Also. What signals are coming out of serial cable period?

    I need to test for signals with different serial adapter cards.

    Schematic is at the bottom.
     
    Last edited: Apr 4, 2017
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