No excuse for disaster

Thread Starter

MaxHeadRoom

Joined Jul 18, 2013
28,619
The Tacoma train disaster, evidently the train going 80mph in a 30 zone, the potentially life-saving system called Positive Train Control (PTC) that could have warned the engineer that he was going too fast was not fitted with this technology.
In spite of this being a innovative rail modification to the system.
What is wrong with N.A. R.R. systems? There have been a few similar incidents in recent years with similar consequences.
To me, there is no reason for it in this day and age.
Many High speed rail systems world wide have all kinds of automatic safety systems in place.
Someone appears to be dropping the ball IMO.
Max.
 

dl324

Joined Mar 30, 2015
16,846
The automated system was scheduled for completion in Spring 2018. Until then, the engineers need to slow down. Too soon to tell if it was equipment failure or human error.
 

nsaspook

Joined Aug 27, 2009
13,086
The Tacoma train disaster, evidently the train going 80mph in a 30 zone, the potentially life-saving system called Positive Train Control (PTC) that could have warned the engineer that he was going too fast was not fitted with this technology.
In spite of this being a innovative rail modification to the system.
What is wrong with N.A. R.R. systems? There have been a few similar incidents in recent years with similar consequences.
To me, there is no reason for it in this day and age.
Many High speed rail systems world wide have all kinds of automatic safety systems in place.
Someone appears to be dropping the ball IMO.
Max.
The system was installed on the tracks (PTC) and the train had the equipment to use it. It was not active at the time.:(

PTC is active on many trains.
https://www.fra.dot.gov/eLib/details/L18621
Due in large part to Amtrak’s significant progress on PTC, 41 percent of passenger railroads’ locomotives are now fully equipped with PTC technology, compared to 29 percent the previous quarter. Freight railroads’ percentage of locomotives fully equipped with PTC technology rose to 42 percent, up from 38 percent.

“We continue to closely monitor railroads’ progress implementing Positive Train Control,” said Patrick Warren, FRA Executive Director. “With less than two years remaining to complete the implementation process, it is imperative that railroads continue to meet implementation milestones.”
http://gpsworld.com/no-positive-train-control-on-train-that-derailed-over-interstate-5/
The Amtrak/Cascade trains are pulled by new Charger locomotive. While equipped with positive train control systems that automatically stop trains when trouble is detected, the PTC system isn’t due to be activated until 2018.
 
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RichardO

Joined May 4, 2013
2,270
The automated system was scheduled for completion in Spring 2018. Until then, the engineers need to slow down. Too soon to tell if it was equipment failure or human error.
They have been running trains to Denver International Airport for over a year now without the crossing gates working properly. :eek: Workers are stationed at each gate to monitor them. Incredible. Crossing gates have worked from the days electricity and trains came together -- but they can't be made to work in the 21st century.

The transit agency had hoped that at this point the gates would be working correctly 65 percent of the time, “but we’re not quite there yet,” Currey said.

https://www.bizjournals.com/denver/...ets-a-new-deadline-for-fixes-to-crossing.html
 

ebeowulf17

Joined Aug 12, 2014
3,307
They have been running trains to Denver International Airport for over a year now without the crossing gates working properly. :eek: Workers are stationed at each gate to monitor them. Incredible. Crossing gates have worked from the days electricity and trains came together -- but they can't be made to work in the 21st century.

The transit agency had hoped that at this point the gates would be working correctly 65 percent of the time, “but we’re not quite there yet,” Currey said.

https://www.bizjournals.com/denver/...ets-a-new-deadline-for-fixes-to-crossing.html
That's incredible. There are also constant crossing gate malfunctions just a little father north on the same tracks as the Tacoma disaster, although I don't think train people are to blame - legendarily bad drivers in the suburbs between Seattle and Tacoma crash through the gates at least once a month! So that gear is taking a lot of abuse!

As for the Tacoma incident, it's heartbreaking and hits way too close to home - I ride the Sounder train every day where those same tracks continue just a little father north (Tacoma to Seattle and back.) My wife and I had been really looking forward to riding that Cascades train to Portland sometime, but it doesn't sound nearly as appealing now.

I'll certainly feel better when PTC is active.
 

Ylli

Joined Nov 13, 2015
1,086
Solution: Passenger rail speeds *locked* to no more than 25 MPH (or the slowest speed limit on the route, whichever is lower) unless the train is under PTC for the entire route. Should help get Amtrak's spending priorities 'on track'.
 

tcmtech

Joined Nov 4, 2013
2,867
What is wrong with N.A. R.R. systems? There have been a few similar incidents in recent years with similar consequences.
To me, there is no reason for it in this day and age.
From my time spent in the local rail yard I can say Unions have way more to do with the neglect of the national RR system then they get credit for. The RR spends million on millions overpaying grossly unqualified and dangerously incompetent people to have jobs they are almost impossible to fire from no matter how bad their actions and work are.

I worked with a lot of great younger guys who made honest money for the work they did in the rail yard and regional track maintenance work crews and everyone of them had stories of certain senior coworkers who were absolutely useless to the point of being dangerously counterproductive yet still received outrageous salaries anyway simply because they had been in the systems for so long they were all but concreted into their union foundations. :mad:

To me those people represent the negative side of union labor and who are eating up 10's if not 100's of millions of dollars of company money every year that could be way better spent on needed safety gear and procedural reviews to improve the overall functionality and working efficiency of the rail systems.
 

Glenn Holland

Joined Dec 26, 2014
703
Our rail transit system was equipped with automatic train control (ATC) when it was built in 1979 which provides automatic speed enforcement.

The ATC uses track circuits which were invented in the 1920s and modern versions use coded carrier which transmits speed commands via the rails. This is also called an "automatic block signal system" and it is not a new technology. Contrary to what the media is reporting about the accident in Washington, there is actually no need for positive train control (PTC) which is a form of ATC that allows trains to run much closer than a system using track circuits.

ATC and PTC are both fail safe, but in the event of a failure, they can also be bypassed to allow the train to be run in manual or "cut out" in which the operator is simply driving on sight with no automatic speed protection. There have been two previous accidents in the U.S. involving trains being operated in cut out mode. In that case, it doesn't matter if PTC was installed and regimentation is the ultimate solution to operator error.

I suspect the investigation in the Washington accident will show the train was being operated in manual and the driver simply floored the throttle.
 
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