Motion detector interface

Thread Starter

OldTimer56

Joined Sep 14, 2018
3
I hope I am in the right place to ask for suggestions about interfacing a motion sensor.

For years, I had a Heath/Zenith SL-5210-GR-B operating my low voltage driveway lights. Motion detector was controlling AC power feeding electronic garden transformer thru the interface box that is part of the above unit. Box has a dry contact relay inside. I tried other motion detectors (120V AC) before, but they did not work with the electronic transformer, causing it to "chatter". I assume the load was not enough to switch it on permanently.
Anyway, Heath quit production of the unit, and mine just died. System down...

I am trying to find the way to add the relay to the stand-alone 120V AC motion sensor (it needs to be an outdoor unit, like HZ-5316, HZ-5407, SL-5407 (all these models are by Heath)) or any other sensor. Electronic transformer will, apparently, not work with non-relay (triac) output.

Any ideas?
Thanks.
 

JohnInTX

Joined Jun 26, 2012
4,787
Welcome to AAC!

Have you tried turning off the 'Dual-Brite' function? The unit likely does the lower setting by half-waving (or reduced phaze angle) the output. That would make pretty much anything but an incandescent bulb unhappy. Full bright would likely be close to fullwave output and may do the trick.

That said, not all triac circuits like firing into inductive loads like a transformer. If it still doesn't work you could try using the output to drive the (smaller) coil of a relay (at full wave again) to drive the transformer with dry contacts.

Finally, you might be able to just find another unit that has a relay output. Searching for yours brought lots of different things up. That would probably be cheaper and better than scabbing on a lot more circuitry.

Good luck!
 

Thread Starter

OldTimer56

Joined Sep 14, 2018
3
I did not try to turn off the "Dual Brite" mode. I will try it with the another sensor I have (as I mentioned the one with relay output is dead).
I tried to drive a relay before but, apparently, the load created by relay coil is not enough to have it controlled by the triac. I may try to find another type of relay to see if this does the trick.

As to finding another unit with relay output - you had much more luck than I did. Any chances you can share some findings with me?

Thanks for your interest and your help.

OT


Welcome to AAC!

Have you tried turning off the 'Dual-Brite' function? The unit likely does the lower setting by half-waving (or reduced phaze angle) the output. That would make pretty much anything but an incandescent bulb unhappy. Full bright would likely be close to fullwave output and may do the trick.

That said, not all triac circuits like firing into inductive loads like a transformer. If it still doesn't work you could try using the output to drive the (smaller) coil of a relay (at full wave again) to drive the transformer with dry contacts.

Finally, you might be able to just find another unit that has a relay output. Searching for yours brought lots of different things up. That would probably be cheaper and better than scabbing on a lot more circuitry.

Good luck!
 

JohnInTX

Joined Jun 26, 2012
4,787
@OldTimer56
Howdy and sorry for late reply but we just got power back after 8 hours. No hurricanes, just lots of guys working down the street. So! Back on.
I found this - SL-5407:
https://www.amazon.com/Heath-Zenith...tector+relay&qid=1536968194&sr=8-1&ref=sr_1_1
The data is sketchy but in 'answered questions' on the amazon page someone indicated it has a relay output:
Does anyone know if you can hear a relay actuating? If so, that's why it works a with 120V LED.
Answer:
Relays work through electromechanical coils and you can certainly hear them actuate. Motion sensors work on changes in perceived temperature changes. The signal is then sent to a transducer which changes this energy to an impulse which signals the light to be switched on.
By Stephen M. on March 27, 2015
Yes, it uses a SHORI S3H-24-1AS relay to switch the load. (at least mine does)
By Amazon Customer on June 2, 2018
I've attached the datasheet for the SHORI relay and the SL-5407. If all else fails, the HZ datasheet says:
Technical Service
Please call 1-800-858-8501 (English speaking only) for assistance before returning product to store.
If you experience a problem, follow this guide. You may also want to visit our Web site at: www.hzsupport.com. If the problem persists, call* for assistance at 1-800-858-8501 (English speaking only), 8:00 AM to 5:00 PM CST
Give them a call and tell them you want a relay output, the bigger the better.

You could just go to Home Depot, Lowes or your friendly local hardware store, wave your arms around and listen for something that clicks.

If you're up to it, you could try to fix your old one. Most likely the relay is bad but if you can find a replacement unit with relay out, I'd just do that.

Hope that helps.
 

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MisterBill2

Joined Jan 23, 2018
18,179
You are right in that the problem is the triac output. And the electronic "transformer" is really a switchmode power supply without an adequate capacitor after the rectifier. Using a mechanical relay to switch the power supply mains power will work, but you probably want it in a weatherproof package, and that can be a challenge, or at least an expense. Depending on the current needed an older transformer supply would be a good choice if the relay is not available in a weather proof housing. There is probably not enough room in the motion detector housing to add even a small relay, I am thinking. Certainly it would be worth the effort to at least examine the old heath unit to see if the problem is obvious. If it was a kit unit then it should be repairable.
I read the specifications of that "shori" relay and those are DC relays, not at all suitable to be driven by any kind of 120 volt AC power.
 
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JohnInTX

Joined Jun 26, 2012
4,787
Just to be clear, the Shori relay is what is incorporated in the suggested motion sensor itself as the output switch instead of the triac. It's contacts drive the lamp load. The contact ratings are given on pp3 of the datasheet.
 
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MisterBill2

Joined Jan 23, 2018
18,179
Just to be clear, the Shori relay is what is incorporated in the suggested motion sensor itself as the output switch instead of the triac. It's contacts drive the lamp load. The contact ratings are given on pp3 of the datasheet.
OK then, somehow that relay is connected to points inside the motion sensor. I found no mention of any relay in the data sheet posted here. In addition, a DC relay will not function correctly on AC. An AC relay with a 120 volt coil connected between the red and white wires will certainly be able to control the lights with it's contacts. IDEC makes a number of suitabe relays, including some smaller ones that are normally socket mounted. BUT you can solder to the pins and that works very well.
 

Thread Starter

OldTimer56

Joined Sep 14, 2018
3
OK, guys. Thanks for all the suggestions.
My apologies for late reply but we have been dealing with aftermath of hurricane (I am in NC). Even it did not hit directly there was a lot of things to deal with, both at home and at work.

Since I am here, wanted to let you know that I decided to order the SL-5407 and go from there. As to the extra relay (if needed) I already have a plastic waterproof box in place where I made a connections and had the control box from the original unit installed. So I should be good either way. As soon as I get it going, I will share my findings. It looks like I was on the right track but I was not as good in searching for things as John ("red face" here).

Thanks again.

OT56
 
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