I currently don't have a viable big torch at present which is why I want to try the Oxy/ Hydrogen burner, and I don't want to pay for rental bottles on a yearly basis as I would only have a need to heat something up occasionally but still have pay for rental whether I use the gas or not, I have a small hand held propane torch which is isn't big enough for furnace melting of aluminium for casting. I am also working on a induction heater for hardening steel and waiting for some Mosfets and other pieces to arrive.

My house has a 5Kw solar system on the roof which provides enough power to offset the drain that the MIG uses, which by the way is quite a economical unit to run unlike my big lathe. If I have done my sums correctly the MIG will be putting out about 60A at about 12-14V over the 3 cells wired in parallel which should not drain too much power from the mains (plus I can always add more cells). I intend to melt down some broken ally motor heads to get rid of the excess steel in it such as valves and springs and then remelt and use the cleaned up Ally for casting and lathe machining.

There is also the issue of being able to zinc plate / galvanize things that I have welded up, in the past they all have to be painted which is one job that I really dislike. Guess I am not a painter! Potassium hydroxide and water is cheap and I can refill the cells when required.

 

If you are paying bottle rent I am assuming you are using an oxy acetylene torch for your furnace and not a normal propane burner system which is more than adequate for melting aluminum. If so you're wasting a lot of money on gas bottles you don't need in order to basic bulk heating work.

Firstly by the numbers if 24 KW gives you 82,000 BTU's of heat in a theoretically perfect 100% energy conversion how do you figure that 60 x 14 x 3.411 = 2866 BTU in a theoretically perfect energy conversion is going to be better?

Here is a reference for figuring out what common Oxy/Acetylene torch tips produce in BTUs based on their input pressures.
http://victortechnologies.com/IM_Up...tting Tip Chart (0056-0411 Rev B)_Jul2011.pdf

Which clearly shows a tiny 000 torch torch tip produces around 90,000 - 180,000 BTU ( 26.375 - 52.75 KW) thermal output at ~ 3 - 5 PSI fuel input alone.

Now as for other fuels like hydrogen, which only has a energy content of 325 BTU per cubic foot, to make any degree of heat you're going to have it produce it in extremely high volumes.
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/heating-values-fuel-gases-d_823.html

Now as for a Oxy Hydrogen generator system the top of the line units are ~80 - 85% efficient and a homemade one that uses common cheap electrode materials and electrolyte solutions might be at best half to two thirds that efficient thus putting your 60 amp 14 volt input at a dismal ~1500 - 2000 BTU output or not quite 1/3 - 1/2 that of a common hair dryer and your full tilt 24 KW welder power supply at 30 - 40,000 BTU torch capacity.

Personally if you want a cheap reliable easy to work with heating system for an aluminum smelter either make or buy yourself a good heavy high capacity propane torch like a Big Bertha unit that puts out several hundred thousand BTU and a 100# propane cylinder to fuel it. You will be far far ahead in time and money, around $200 for all new torch and tank, in the end.

I think it's time you sat down and did some basic math and conversion numbers here to see what you are really working with and what you get in realistic working conditions for what cost because the numbers and applications you are giving now don't add up to be viable for anything other than making you appear to unrealistically and ineptly cheap about what it is you claim you want to do.

 

If you are paying bottle rent I am assuming you are using an oxy acetylene torch for your furnace and not a normal propane burner system which is more than adequate for melting aluminum. If so you're wasting a lot of money on gas bottles you don't need in order to basic bulk heating work.

Firstly by the numbers if 24 KW gives you 82,000 BTU's of heat in a theoretically perfect 100% energy conversion how do you figure that 60 x 14 x 3.411 = 2866 BTU in a theoretically perfect energy conversion is going to be better?

Here is a reference for figuring out what common Oxy/Acetylene torch tips produce in BTUs based on their input pressures.
http://victortechnologies.com/IM_Uploads/doclib_8051_DocLib_4680_Victor Acetylene Cutting Tip Chart (0056-0411 Rev B)_Jul2011.pdf

Looks like I can't argue with numbers, Oh well, I was looking forward to building it, so I guess I will just concentrate on the electroplating tank.

Cheers

Ed.

Which clearly shows a tiny 000 torch torch tip produces around 90,000 - 180,000 BTU ( 26.375 - 52.75 KW) thermal output at ~ 3 - 5 PSI fuel input alone.

Now as for other fuels like hydrogen, which only has a energy content of 325 BTU per cubic foot, to make any degree of heat you're going to have it produce it in extremely high volumes.
http://www.engineeringtoolbox.com/heating-values-fuel-gases-d_823.html

Now as for a Oxy Hydrogen generator system the top of the line units are ~80 - 85% efficient and a homemade one that uses common cheap electrode materials and electrolyte solutions might be at best half to two thirds that efficient thus putting your 60 amp 14 volt input at a dismal ~1500 - 2000 BTU output or not quite 1/3 - 1/2 that of a common hair dryer and your full tilt 24 KW welder power supply at 30 - 40,000 BTU torch capacity.

Personally if you want a cheap reliable easy to work with heating system for an aluminum smelter either make or buy yourself a good heavy high capacity propane torch like a Big Bertha unit that puts out several hundred thousand BTU and a 100# propane cylinder to fuel it. You will be far far ahead in time and money, around $200 for all new torch and tank, in the end.

I think it's time you sat down and did some basic math and conversion numbers here to see what you are really working with and what you get in realistic working conditions for what cost because the numbers and applications you are giving now don't add up to be viable for anything other than making you appear to unrealistically and ineptly cheap about what it is you claim you want to do.

 

and I don't want to pay for rental bottles on a yearly basis as I would only have a need to heat something up occasionally but still have pay for rental whether I use the gas or not,

Don't know where you live, but only time I pay for anything other than gas content, on my oxy/act, Mig or Tig tanks is if I keep them past a pressure check date. I'll have to pay that on my Tig tank because I don't use it enough to fill it often.

 

Annual tank lease here for my K Oxygen, Argon, Hydrogen and 20 and 50 # liquid Co2 tanks runs me about $30 each a year. I own my Acetylene and other smaller gas tanks so for those I either just pay the refill rate on an exchange or fill them off the larger units as needed.

 

I am in Australia and we get charged a lot for cylinder rental. To give you an idea, I used to rent an E size 4m3 cylinder and that used to cost about $200 per year bottle rental and the argon mix was about $140. I ended buying an E bottle outright which cost $560 including gas with a $160 refill.

Bunnings which is a large hardware chain here now just recently started to offer a D size bottle 2m3 for $200 deposit and about $70-90 refill.

So getting several bottles starts to get expensive for the refills. Hence the reason I was hoping to get the oxy/hyd gas setup.