Lift Problem

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marshallf3

Joined Jul 26, 2010
2,358
In many countries, it is against the laws and regulations for any person to work on personnel lift(both mechanical and electrical) circuits without authorization or certification by the lift company and/or licensing authority.

The lift control room door must be locked at all times to prevent curious people from access.

Similar circumstances applies to fire protection circuitry too.
It also varies by state and city here in the U.S.

1) I'm legally allowed to work on anything electrical in the building EXCEPT for the 1 floor freight elevator.

2) I'm legally allowed to work on anything related to the fire system EXCEPT for the related plumbing.

3) I'm legally allowed to work on the water and gas plumbing, but not any underfloor heat systems.
(of course we have none of those)

Considering the sheer amount of ampacity we have coming into the building
(2 ea. dedicated 6,000A 480V 3 phase step downs on the ground outside,
internally limited by indoor main panel breakers to 4,000A & 2,500A)
the electrical was the hardest to get approval on. The state calls me legal, the city & I have an understanding.

When I called the city inspector years ago to explain we had moved and wanted to make sure he was still OK with our agreement he merely commented that he'd seen enough of my work ethics and major installations dealing with the 240 Delta and 208Y/120 at the old place that, since I fell into legality on the state level and that I felt comfortable around the new systems, he had no problems with it at all but as with the old place to give him a call if I was in doubt interpreting a regulation.

Quite honestly I feel a lot safer in this new building, the old one was a hodgepodge of problems just waiting to occur.

Sure, it's #12 AWG but it's cloth covered crumbling rubber insulation and I'm replacing it.
Why is this white wire hot and the blue one neutral here but there are no blue wires in the panel?
OK, what idiot ran Romex to all the lighting above this ceiling? This is a commercial building.
(To the CEO:) You want to know what might be causing some of these PCs to meet an early death after a lightning storm? Throwing $20 surge strips everywhere can't hurt but it isn't the answer. There are absolutely no ground rods or anything else acceptable on the service entry points, you have two totally different forms of electrical power in the buildings and all of the computers & network switches are serving as a floating ground system between the buildings that are 208Y and the ones that are 240 Delta.

My back still aches from hammer drilling large holes through 12" brick shelled, concrete filled walls, 8" thick sidewalks and pounding ground rods through a parking lot that must have been 2' of gravel put down over the years on top of an old railroad siding.
 

thatoneguy

Joined Feb 19, 2009
6,359
My back still aches from hammer drilling large holes through 12" brick shelled, concrete filled walls, 8" thick sidewalks and pounding ground rods through a parking lot that must have been 2' of gravel put down over the years on top of an old railroad siding.
Isn't it a wonderful thing to absolutely love your job!? </sarcasm>

Sounds like the CEO's need it drawn out for them in crayon or something they can understand.
 

marshallf3

Joined Jul 26, 2010
2,358
When I first came onboard with the company I ran into many situations I had to put into "laymen's terms", don't now if they understood every explanation but I usually won out. Nowadays I'm pretty much left on my own, the hard parts to explain are why some things actually cost money.
 

Thread Starter

R!f@@

Joined Apr 2, 2009
9,682
No luck on the capacitors. Changed all of 'em. I did measure improvements in the 5V & -12V line though.
The brake resistors measured what is rated.
The DC bus is at a steady 600VDC.

The Elevator Car lights are not working properly. I can see the elevator floor indicator and the door open lights working. Nothing else seems to respond to the button inside or outside. Switches also does not respond.

The funny part is after I discharge the super cap and even resetting it doesn't seem to clear the error code. If it is a brake spike then it shud restart and only after that the error shud occur, right?
The darn thing isn't responding at all. Expect the on board leds changes state when I reset or switch to maintenance mode and all.

I am totally lost now.
 

Potato Pudding

Joined Jun 11, 2010
688
Rifaa - I do not envy you now which says a lot when you compare your weather to what we go through in Canada in the next few months.

I would really not even be interested in working on Lifts unless I had some decent and very specific training. On the other hand that is a luxury.

But you know that if you don't fix it it will almost certainly be somebody else with much less electronics experience that will start crossing wires until the elevator moves again so that they can collect a paycheque for what is very likely to be an unsafe repair.

Be careful, but it looks like you are on the way to a repair.

Don't let them rush you into saying it is fixed as soon as you get it running again.

Take some time to make measurements and check for more error codes.

Better any recurring problems happen during testing than while the lift is full of passengers.
 

Potato Pudding

Joined Jun 11, 2010
688
I didn't want to get you to discouraged but there is a decent chance the main controller ICs are damaged don't you think?

If the overvoltage damaged capacitors then what shape would CMOS be in?

And it won't be just replacing expensive IC's, they will need a copy of the specific programming. The programs can be specific to a building installation in some cases, and or require dozens of option settings in the standard programming.

I am not certain how hard that stuff will be to reacquire.
 

Thread Starter

R!f@@

Joined Apr 2, 2009
9,682
U know it's kinda funny to call u potato pudding, but thanks.

I know I don't have any approval on working on lifts, but I doubt abt me being not qualified to tackle it. Atleast I am the best this country has to offer. So I am the only hope these guys got.

U are absolutely right about wannabes crossing wires. I told 'em not to let any one touch it. So atleast it will be as it is till I get a reply from Mitsubishi. Mitsubishi has a separate web page for unlisted countries and I cannot register. But I did mailed them yesterday.

If the μC is down, I think it won't respond to reset or maintenance mode and also from auto to hand mode.

I checked to see if the brake resistor works, I donno it qualifies to what I did. I checked an IGBT module that is connected in such a way to bleed the bus voltage. The IGBT turns on when power is cuttoff, and the 600V bleeds via the 40Ω 100W or so Brake resistors quite fast

When powered the BUS slowly rises to 600VDC.

I really don't understand what the spike u guys are talking about. I spike does not occur always, right?. I shud at least be able to start it and then get an error, if it is a brake spike thing.

I checked for shorted diodes. This thing has 3 phase transformers, lotta contactors and, breakers, so without a wiring diagram I go berserk :confused:.
 

Thread Starter

R!f@@

Joined Apr 2, 2009
9,682
I took out the PSU and Controller Assy so tht no one can do any thing in my absence now tht I am away on vacation.

I got to protect my income after all.

I am thinking of reflowing the Controll assy and try it.

I'll do tht after the vacation :D
 

Thread Starter

R!f@@

Joined Apr 2, 2009
9,682
Guys..you will never believe this.

Once again I have step in to another politics/greedy tech situation.

This time I am going to fire some Mitsubishi employees for sure
 

Thread Starter

R!f@@

Joined Apr 2, 2009
9,682
Ok...I will show you..
The techs are from Srilanka, they run a Mitsubishi branch and from the way I see it they trying to make a huge pay check from this lift. Right now I have their quotation.
From what is written I smell something fishy..
I called them today and it seems their so called Engineer will be available on 13, so till then, I am waiting
 

Jeevans

Joined Nov 30, 2014
6
I am new into this lift & its maintenance fields.. So today I attend one call which is of same type mentioned above CCP-GEL31 (Mistubishi VFEL) . I have seen 4 errors together while checking, which are E 5, E 6, E 7, and E 8. I think it is for over current, over voltage, low voltage and unable to restart errors respectively. But I have checked all power supplies, it is all proper.Please help me to sort out this issue.
 

MaxHeadRoom

Joined Jul 18, 2013
19,736
I am new into this lift & its maintenance fields.. So today I attend one call which is of same type mentioned above CCP-GEL31 (Mistubishi VFEL) . I have seen 4 errors together while checking, which are E 5, E 6, E 7, and E 8. I think it is for over current, over voltage, low voltage and unable to restart errors respectively. But I have checked all power supplies, it is all proper.Please help me to sort out this issue.
Your thread has been moved to here!
http://forum.allaboutcircuits.com/threads/fixing-elevator-system.104128/
Max.
 
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