Hey Mr. Bill, Tony and MrChips! Thanks you guys for more thoughtful and, I think, problem solving solutions. That was actually 1 thought I had this morning was to just add a low wattage incandescent bulb. .I can get at the wiring through the filter opening for the fan on the bottom side of the microwave without really opening anything up. . .and also getting some new, cool ideas like your motion detectors and your solution. Like the diode idea too. . .any reason I should go diode over adding a "load soaking" incandescent? I could actually use the extra light. . .this new microwave is proving to be not as good as the older one I replaced! LOOKS nicer. . .but doesn't throw the light, leaking power, etc. . .guess they don't build 'em like they used to. . .
Thanks again everyone that responded. . .I'll letchya know how I make out and hopefully learn a little bit in the process ;-)

 

That sounds like the best solution, i.e. put a low wattage incandescent light bulb in parallel with the LED lamp.
However, this would require getting at the wiring.

Not if the lamp has 2 or more bulbs as my table lamps do.

As for the TS issue with the MicroWave Oven; the best one can do is to put an inc' and an LED bulb. Otherwise it requires wiring. And where would you place a second lamp? One option that sort of comes to mind would be to disassemble the oven (again, not recommended) and connect the interior light to the underside lights. But that entails opening an oven with a high voltage capacitor that may be holding a residual charge. Despite the bleeder resistor. But if one must open the unit - just let it sit unplugged and unoperated for a week. A day will probably be OK, but because there's the potential you could get hurt - I say a week. Anything otherwise - you proceed at your own risk.

[edit] didn't see we went to a page two.

 

Would not recommend a resistor, but this is exactly what's happening. If you've ever opened a microwave oven (not recommended for good reason) the board that controls the oven also controls the fan speed and the light intensity. When "OFF", as Dave said, there is leakage. That's why the LED bulb stays on either partially or may flicker. I've had similar issues with a standard motion detector light switch and LED's on the circuit. When I upgraded my basement lighting I put a motion detector light switch (MDLS) in. When you entered the laundry room the lights would come on and stay on as long as motion was detected. Five minutes later, after all motion detection ended the lights would shut off. Later I upgraded the bulbs to LEDs. As soon as I removed the last incandescent bulb the LEDs began to flicker. I had to leave at least one incandescent bulb in the circuit in order to make the LEDs go fully off. All because there was a small leakage current going on. And the inc' bulb didn't have to be high wattage either.

In my bedroom I have table lamps aside the bed. I built a box with light dimmer touch controls. The ran a small wire up the back side of the bed post. All you had to do was touch the wire and you turn the lamp on low. Touch again, medium. Then high. Then off. You could plug any lamp into it. But you couldn't use LED bulbs because they'd flicker or glow constantly. The solution was to have a single inc' bulb. Since the lamps there now have a small night light in them as well as the standard bulbs, replacing the standard bulbs with LED and the inc' night light, the lamps work perfectly. Fully dimmable and fully off when off.

Here is a caution, which is that when you use anything other than a mechanical switch or relay for control, be sure that the LED or CFL device is rated as "dimmable." I destroyed one that was not by using it with an triac type motion sensor. The relay type motion sensors are OK with them.

 

Actually @MisterBill2; I've run into no issues with any of the LED's on triac controlled switches and dimmers using an incandescent in circuit. Have had a few LED's fail but they were on standard house current and switched by manual wall switches. Maybe I've been lucky. But for my experiences, I haven't had any issues with LED's going bad on standard dimmers or motion sensors. And the LED's in question are not "dimmable". The only "dimmable" LED's I have are in the family room and they are on an expensive LED designed dimmer control. I much prefer the older style dimmers and standard LED lamps. My opinion here - seems to look and respond better.

 

Hey Ebeowulf17! Thanks so much for that helpful reply and for explaining why, with my extremely limited electronics knowledge, that putting something "in line" won't work. So, by "in parallel" that means that one end of the resistor/snubber needs to be connected to one wire/terminal going to the light and the other end of the snubber needs to be connected to the other wire/terminal? What values (?) or exact part number snubber should I be using for a 120v 4w LED?
I have built a Cmoy amp before but that was by following explicit directions online with practically no idea why it worked so I have the mechanical ability to solder, wire, connect, etc. Thanks again for your help!

I can't say for sure what values would be needed to get the job done, because we don't know how much leakage current there is. So, it's just educated guesses at this point unless you want to try to get accurate leakage current readings (which I don't really recommend, cause it would be an easy thing to mess up, and potentially dangerous.)

I'm not sure why I was thinking of higher voltages before, but knowing now that it's 120V means lower resistance values can be used safely, and the voltage ratings don't need to be quite as extreme either.

I'm guessing 120V means U.S. or at least North America, so Digikey would be a good supplier. They offer lots of snubbers with specs that would probably work, but only one that has flexible, insulated wire leads, which would probably make installation easier, so I'd recommend that one:

https://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/red-lion-controls/SNUB0000/RLC201-ND/3596201

If you preferred a resistor for whatever reason, this would probably work:

https://www.digikey.com/product-det...nics-inc/RSMF2JT47K0/RSMF2JT47K0CT-ND/2021880

Regardless of what component you choose, obviously you need to be very, very careful when doing any work on mains voltage equipment. You should have it completely unplugged before attempting any service, and you should be very careful to check that you've made good, solid connections and that you haven't left any exposed high voltage wires or terminals where they could present a shock hazard later, or potentially get pinched or shorted to the frame somehow. Please don't attempt this if you're not confident that you can do such work safely. With those disclaimers out of the way, yes your understanding of the parallel connection sounds right.

 

My Whirlpool over the range microwave has a G9-size bulb to illuminate the cooktop. I replaced the halogen bulb with an LED and found that when the button on the microwave for light was pushed it would do bright and dim but would not turn off. I've seen this before with other dimmers and when switching to LED lights. The problem is the design of the dimmer circuit requires a small amount of current to operate. With an incandescent light (including halogen) that small current is not enough to illuminate the bulb. But with a LED light it is! There are various solutions to this but the two common ones are 1) keep using an incandescent bulb (for me that was the easy solution) or 2) put a resistor across the load to provide a small amount of current to the dimmer circuit so it can operate correctly. Then the LED will turn off. But you can get into trouble adding the resistor if you are not certain of what you are doing. Clearly, you do not want to electrocute yourself! So, unplug the microwave oven if you want to try this. Other considerations are what resistance for the resistor and what power rating for the resistor. In the case of my microwave (your could very well be different) the original bulb was 120V and 25 watts. That means the current through the bulb was about 208 milliamps (or 0.208 amps) when the bulb was brightly lit. I would first try a resistor that would carry about 1/10th as much or 20 milliamps. Ohm's law tells that would be a (120/0.02) 6000 ohm resistor. You may find that hard to find but the 5600 ohm standard value that you should easily be able to find. Now how much power should the resistor be rated at? Power is V squared divided by R (120x120/5600) so the resistor must be able to safely dissipate the heat of 2.57 watts. So I would choose a 5W resistor. So now where do you put it. That requires some creative effort, but before you put it anywhere I suggest you set up a test by carefully connecting to the wires on the back of the bulb socket. (in my case removing one screw gets you access) Using test clips with caution connect the resistor across the leads to the socket, insert the bulb and give it a try. If the bulb turns off, great! Now you can think about how to mount the resistor permanently and with sufficient insulation (heat shrink tubing maybe) to keep it from shorting to the microwave chassis. What if it doesn't turn off. Try a second resistor in parallel. You have now increase the current to 20% of normal operation. If that doesn't work, I would go back to using an incandescent bulb. Again, always be safe... Unplug or turn off breakers before working on 120V circuits. Use a voltage meter or voltage detector to insure the circuit is really off before proceeding. Double check you test setup and final solution to make sure it will never short. Finally, realize that modifying any consumer appliance voids its warranty. And anything like this you take on for yourself means you are taking personal liability and not blaming me for anything that goes wrong. Best of luck!

 

My Whirlpool over the range microwave has a G9-size bulb to illuminate the cooktop. I replaced the halogen bulb with an LED and found that when the button on the microwave for light was pushed it would do bright and dim but would not turn off. I've seen this before with other dimmers and when switching to LED lights. The problem is the design of the dimmer circuit requires a small amount of current to operate. With an incandescent light (including halogen) that small current is not enough to illuminate the bulb. But with a LED light it is! There are various solutions to this but the two common ones are 1) keep using an incandescent bulb (for me that was the easy solution) or 2) put a resistor across the load to provide a small amount of current to the dimmer circuit so it can operate correctly. Then the LED will turn off. But you can get into trouble adding the resistor if you are not certain of what you are doing. Clearly, you do not want to electrocute yourself! So, unplug the microwave oven if you want to try this. Other considerations are what resistance for the resistor and what power rating for the resistor. In the case of my microwave (your could very well be different) the original bulb was 120V and 25 watts. That means the current through the bulb was about 208 milliamps (or 0.208 amps) when the bulb was brightly lit. I would first try a resistor that would carry about 1/10th as much or 20 milliamps. Ohm's law tells that would be a (120/0.02) 6000 ohm resistor. You may find that hard to find but the 5600 ohm standard value that you should easily be able to find. Now how much power should the resistor be rated at? Power is V squared divided by R (120x120/5600) so the resistor must be able to safely dissipate the heat of 2.57 watts. So I would choose a 5W resistor. So now where do you put it. That requires some creative effort, but before you put it anywhere I suggest you set up a test by carefully connecting to the wires on the back of the bulb socket. (in my case removing one screw gets you access) Using test clips with caution connect the resistor across the leads to the socket, insert the bulb and give it a try. If the bulb turns off, great! Now you can think about how to mount the resistor permanently and with sufficient insulation (heat shrink tubing maybe) to keep it from shorting to the microwave chassis. What if it doesn't turn off. Try a second resistor in parallel. You have now increase the current to 20% of normal operation. If that doesn't work, I would go back to using an incandescent bulb. Again, always be safe... Unplug or turn off breakers before working on 120V circuits. Use a voltage meter or voltage detector to insure the circuit is really off before proceeding. Double check you test setup and final solution to make sure it will never short. Finally, realize that modifying any consumer appliance voids its warranty. And anything like this you take on for yourself means you are taking personal liability and not blaming me for anything that goes wrong. Best of luck!

Hey Charles! I haven't read your response in depth as of yet but certainly will! As of the beginning of this thread, I've chosen your option #1. .leave the incandescent bulb in and put up with the yellowish light but every now and again I get the itch to make it right. Thanks so much for your detailed response and when it moves up the priority list maybe I'll give it another go!

 

One workaround would be to add a small single pole relay with a normally open contact and a 120 volt coil, have that relay driven by the circuit that powers the light socket, and have the contact then switch on the socket power. That would be simple and would not involve access to any other part of the oven. I am sure there is adequate room for a small cube relay inside, there always is. The big deal part is taking the oven down to do the installation. AND be sure to unplug it before opening the case to do the work.

 

AND be sure to unplug it before opening the case to do the work.

AND let it sit for a few days to discharge the high voltage capacitor. It shouldn't take that long to discharge - but be on the safe side.

 

AND let it sit for a few days to discharge the high voltage capacitor. It shouldn't take that long to discharge - but be on the safe side.

That high voltage capacitor will discharge rapidly, AND IN ADDITION, that part of the circuit is not near the wires you would be working with. Of course, it does make sense to avoid probing the rest of the wiring with your fingers.

 

True. But I never know who's going to open up what and where they're going to poke their fingers.