Actually, you would need either an H-bridge or a center-tapped primary of a toroidal transformer that could operate with decent Q in that frequency range. The secondary would provide the pulse.

Such a toroid would be something like Amidon's Material #2, that has decent Q in the 3MHz range, depending upon the toroid size and number of windings.

But, you'd never be able to get current supplied via 12v flowing through a 100uH inductor in the 3MHz range. The inductance would have to be reduced considerably.

I simply don't have the time to fiddle around with something like that, and don't happen to have any toroids made from suitable material on hand.

do you mean that the pulser circuit to be embedded in the charger and then the charger would charge the batery in pulsed DC? anyhow there would be need of a switch like IRF9z34 and to drive a transformer at tuned frequency how could we use the PLL?

 

What I was talking about has nothing to do with charging; simply a theoretical approach of driving a toroidal transformer primary in the frequency range you've mentioned.

Just trying to resolve flux walking issues in that freq range would be somewhat of a chore. You wouldn't want to have constant DC current through the winding, as that would result in a good bit of wasted power and heating.

 

What I was talking about has nothing to do with charging; simply a theoretical approach of driving a toroidal transformer primary in the frequency range you've mentioned.

Just trying to resolve flux walking issues in that freq range would be somewhat of a chore. You wouldn't want to have constant DC current through the winding, as that would result in a good bit of wasted power and heating.

what modifications do you suggest me? i didnt clearly get you.. any advice/suggestion welcome from anyone..

 

What kind of simulation are you looking for.
And Posting the schema is also a good idea.

cn we troubleshoot the circuit now? m online

 

Which pulse frequencies will you be aiming for, with this circuit?

 

Which pulse frequencies will you be aiming for, with this circuit?

the frequencies I aim is 3-4MHz but i have given a range for the offset. the frequency of the sulphate crystals lies between this range and is common for all size of the crystals. it is the molecular vibrational frequency. if we provide enough energy ( amperes from charger) at this frequency then we can break the crystals. but due to liquid and other materials we have to give a range so that it compensates for the losses while travelling through the liquid. i have also taken care not to distort the other materials.

 

What we tried to say to you, is that with current schematic. You will NOT be able to achieve your goal. You need to start with over again with a different design approach.

 

What we tried to say to you, is that with current schematic. You will NOT be able to achieve your goal. You need to start with over again with a different design approach.

How should I start then? I have all the components of this circuit. pls suggest me. this was my first project and i dont want to let it die out. i will make all changes to make it work. but once again i would like to give a central idea of the proposed circuit.

This circuit intends to break the sulphate cystals in the battery. there is a specific molecular vibrational frequency for every compound. this frequency is the frequency of the vibration of the molecules connected by chemical bonds. for sulphate crystals it is 3.26MHz. now if a molecule is vibrated at this frequency there is a tuning of the molecule's frequency with the supplied frequency. with the energy equal to the bond energy the molecule can be broken into its component atoms. like for lead sulphate (PbSO4) to Pb2+ and (SO4)2-. the Lead (Pb) and SO4 thus formed go to the plates when battery is in charging state. the frequency is very specific and frequency other than this frequency is transparent to the molecule.

So my proposed circuit uses a demodulator to find out the exact frequency of the crystals. and then a PLL to lock the frequency. The VCO oscillator then pulses the crystal with the locked frequency. now the main point to concern is that there is a liquid (Acid) and lead, lead peroxide and other stabilizing materials also in the battery. we dont have to harm them. like lead peroxide could also be locked and broken. so do the lead from the plates bound by interatomic forces. so we give a range to the circuit. i gave it from 3MHz to 4MHz. this is transparent to all other materials.

I have posted the earlier schematics and in it MM74HC4046 is used. the other 4046 do not give such high range so dont use them for simulations. only this ic is capable of 3-4 MHz. its center freq is 12 MHz.
there are some serious problems that i am not able to understand since i am a newbie. but you can read them in earlier posts.

 

No one to reply or help?

 

You apparently want us to completely design and debug a new circuit for you, based upon somewhat dubious assumptions.

That would not only require a fair amount of time, but would require an investment to purchase suitable components for testing purposes, and one would need a variety of suitably sulfated batteries to test the effectiveness on them.

Trying to use the battery as the control for the VCO will very likely prove fruitless, as far too many parasitics are involved.

Now if you really want to make progress on this thing, then experiment in your laboratory with frequencies in the range you are speaking of, and determine what frequency seems to be most effective in causing the crystals to dissolve back into the electrolyte solution.

If it happens to be 3.26MHz exactly, it is a relatively simple task to build a single-frequency crystal controlled oscillator.

The more complex portion will be to construct a suitable toroidal inductor/transformer and driver for delivering the RF energy to the battery.

Another look at Amidon's offerings indicate that material "F" could be a candidate, but I don't have Q-plots for that material.

Even if someone else designed the thing for you, and built a working prototype, it does not mean that you could successfully construct one yourself, even with excruciatingly detailed instructions.

 

The design you have used as reference works more like water closet. Energy is built up slowly in the water tank. Then you flush down the energy is delivered in a very short time. Let us say we require full flush cycles as fast as possible. This will be limited by the timing of charge cycle(filling the water tank). And the time time to drain the water. Even if you are able to fill the water tank in zero seconds, you will still have to wait for the water to be flushed out before starting a new cycle. The flushing time will be equal to the about 100 uSec I have mentioned in previous post.
Each current spike delivered contains a lot of different frequencies, and some of them causes desulfation, other not. So I guess you can increase the efficiency by increasing the pulse rate, but this will also cause other problems like loss of heat in the inductor (100uH)and diode (1n4937).

 

The design you have used as reference works more like water closet. Energy is built up slowly in the water tank. Then you flush down the energy is delivered in a very short time. Let us say we require full flush cycles as fast as possible. This will be limited by the timing of charge cycle(filling the water tank). And the time time to drain the water. Even if you are able to fill the water tank in zero seconds, you will still have to wait for the water to be flushed out before starting a new cycle. The flushing time will be equal to the about 100 uSec I have mentioned in previous post.
Each current spike delivered contains a lot of different frequencies, and some of them causes desulfation, other not. So I guess you can increase the efficiency by increasing the pulse rate, but this will also cause other problems like loss of heat in the inductor (100uH)and diode (1n4937).

the inductor is a 16gauze wire and i can cool it. can we use 2 4937 for distributing the recovery? now comes the problem of charge cycle timing. i want to know how are higher frequency circuits timed. there are many circuits which use even higher frequencies? so what could be a proper solution for charge timing?

 

anybody wants to help?

 

You can use a crystal and a counter ic as a timer. That will be a pretty accurate high frequency timer.

That and an AND gate can give you the firing signal.

 

You can use a crystal and a counter ic as a timer. That will be a pretty accurate high frequency timer.

That and an AND gate can give you the firing signal.

can you explain me in details? please read the theme of my circuit. higher frequency is not my goal. my goal is a tuned frequency. i have to lock the frequency to the resonant frequency.

 

Ahh.. my apologies. So basically you want a frequency counter to obtain the resonant frequency then a signal generator to generate the frequency back at a higher power?

 

Ahh.. my apologies. So basically you want a frequency counter to obtain the resonant frequency then a signal generator to generate the frequency back at a higher power?

thats what eating my head. my proposed schematics is full of flaws and i want to start over again. can you help me?

 

I can try. There are going to be a few interesting parts that I have never built, but I think we can come up with a design.

Now if it works on the sulfation the way you propose, I have NO idea.. I dont put much credence into it, but it is worth a try.

 

You'll probably be better off to select a center frequency, and have a VCO sweep across that frequency. Trying to get the resonant frequency of the crystals IN the battery is going to be very difficult, at best.

 

That would also allow for different crystal sizes and also include some variation for the dampening effects from the acid and the plates.

Using a changing (sweeping) pulse to breakup the crystal bunches as well as vibrating off some sulfation can help to clear the plates, but after the crystals fall to the bottom, whos to say what the best frequency is to disrupt the crystals.

Also, the battery is a BATTERY. A collection of cells. To be really effective, we would need a seperate transducer and microphone for each cell.

It may be possible to introduce a ultrasonic transducer to the bath of each cell, along with the pulses to help stir things up...

But sticking to a set frequency would limit results.