Unpopular opinion warning...

I think I have reached the age where I am expected to (or at least at liberty to) complain about "kids these days," but ya know what... I don't actually have a whole lot to complain about. If you exclude the ones eating tide pods, the ones confused about their species, the ones pooping on sidewalks in Portland, and the ones gluing themselves to asphalt; If you ignore those minority stereotypes that we like to paint across the whole generation and if you just look at the "typical" Gen Z kid, I think they are a more mature, more responsible, better behaved, more well-rounded and well-adjusted person than the "typical" millennial or Gen X kid was.

My daughter is about to graduate high school and my niece who lives with us is only a year younger, so I have a lot of face time with a lot of teenagers. I'm sure my observation is skewed by living in a small town and by the company which my kids choose to keep, but I also went to school in a (different) small town and I hear the kids' gossip and none of it is even close to the things I saw in high school. When I was in high school there were kids smoking pot in the bathrooms, ditching school to get up to mischief, vandalizing property, etc. A noticeable percentage of girls got pregnant before graduation. There was more emphasis on attendance than on grades; if they could just get you to show up and stay for the whole day, they would find a way to help you pass. I knew a handful of kids who died before graduation because of drunk driving, overdose, or other stupid behavior. There were fights almost every day. Dropping out and getting a GED (or not) was "a thing." It was not uncommon for kids to get arrested on school grounds and led away in handcuffs. Bomb threats happened at least once per month. Our parents didn't even know where we were half the time. I bought my own vehicle at 16 so that my parents wouldn't be able to hold car keys over me as leverage, and I bought my own nokia brick phone so that I couldn't have it disconnected for failure to answer and report location at 2am.

My daughter and her friends rarely drink alcohol. When they do, they do so presided over by an adult who isn't that creepy older dude that likes to party with teenagers and sell them drugs, but instead a concerned parent or parent of a friend who just wants them to have a safe place to do their thing. Many of them don't drink at all, and those who do, have a DD or stay the night (with permission). None of them smoke and I haven't even seen any vape. They ask the cutest questions about drugs. There isn't a single pregnant girl in the whole high school. I've only heard of two kids being arrested during the whole time she has been in school. They've only had one bomb threat in the past 5 years. Only a couple of incidents of drugs in the school and it was just weed; one of them might not even count because it was a THC vape pen. They all have tracking apps on their phones and we the parents always know where they are. Not like we need to check though, they are always home 90 seconds before curfew.

It seems "being bad" isn't as cool as it used to be. I wasn't even a "bad kid" (well, maybe, borderline) in high school but I would be an absolute criminal by comparison if 18y/o me were among these kids. If I went back to school now it would feel like this:

This is an observation that I have been cultivating for a couple of years now and it finally bloomed into something too big to stay contained to my own head, so I'm here to discuss... What are your observations? Do you agree? If so, what are your ideas about cause and effect?

 

The Earth is actually changing Frequency, radically,
and along with it, all of the People are also.

Most people are not aware of this on-going change,
( only around ~10% are aware of it ),
and if You tried to explain it to them they would just think You were crazy.

But it's "All-Good", absolutely nothing bad is going to be caused by these changes,
and nothing can stop them from occurring.

Now would be the perfect time to start visualizing your life, and the World,
the way that You would like it to be if there were zero-limits.
And be sure to have fun doing it.
.
.
.

 

This is an observation that I have been cultivating for a couple of years now and it finally bloomed into something too big to stay contained to my own head, so I'm here to discuss... What are your observations? Do you agree? If so, what are your ideas about cause and effect?

I think the situation is far more nuanced and complicated than anyone's personal observations can enunciate.

First off, when people have discussions about "kids these days", they are almost always focusing on aberrant behavior as though it is typical behavior (it's pretty hard not to), and then drawing upon typical behavior in the past as a comparison. The overwhelming majority of kids, both now and yesteryear, do NOT get in trouble in any significant way. Even if we try really hard to do apples-to-apples comparisons, our perceptions are skewed for all kinds of reasons -- we are viewing it from the standpoint of adults with a much broader experience base as compared to when we were teens and in the mix of things with a very narrow and myopic view of the world. The population is also much larger -- there's simply more kids to get in trouble. Also, the breadth of news coverage is so much more pervasive -- we used to only hear about the most outrageous extreme cases beyond our local area, now we are bombarded with even much more mundane cases from everywhere.

What you or I saw back then or see today is pretty much guaranteed to NOT be representative of either the way it was or the way it is. But, of course, there's no way to prevent those personal observations from having a very disproportionate impact on our perceptions of both.

I can certainly make observations about the changes I've seen over the decades in particular segments of the population that, at least on the surface, should provide some kind of a reference for a longitudinal view. For instance, kids involved with a particular youth organization I've been a member of for nearly half a century, or engineering students, or USAFA cadets. But the degree to which changes in those groups are accurate indicators in changes, or lack thereof, in "kids these days" is very problematic.

 

If you exclude the ones.... confused about their species....

If by this statement you mean gay and trans kids, I that offense at your statement. Gay and trans kids don't decide their sexuality or gender anymore more than YOU did. They are born that way; it's the way their brain is wired. How do I know? Because I AM GAY.

I grew up in a time when it was simply not acceptable to be gay. I grew up in the closet, ignoring my sexuality. I was a loner, walling off part of myself that nobody could know about. After school, I was a workaholic, still hiding the real me from the world for decades.

In some ways, gay and trans kids have it better today. In some ways. But they see the news too. Too many in the US want to that away gay EQUAL rights. Not special rights, equal rights. The right to employment security. Housing security. The right to marry the person they love. And there are some who would confine us to prison camps or even exterminate us. Kids see the hatred. See that their rights are political barganing chips. This can make these kids feel inferior, and it leads to high suicide rates among gay and trans kids.

Sorry to hijack the thread, this is a sensitive issue to me.


And if by "...confused about their species....", you meant schools having liter boxes for kids to poop in, TURN OFF FOX NEWS. This is entirely false, made up crap to brainwash those who think the world is falling apart and the only solution is to turn the clock back to 1850.

 

If by this statement you mean gay and trans kids

No I that's not what I meant but I can see why you would interpret it that way; I should have been more clear. When I said that I had one thing in mind. My youngest daughter is in 4th grade and she keeps bringing up "furries." She says a couple of her friends are furries and on more than one occasion she has told people that she is one too. She thinks it's just a cute make believe game, and isn't old enough for me to explain that it's a weird sex kink, so I just have to keep telling her "STOP saying that, you don't know what a furry is, you're NOT one, and if you knew what you were saying you would be really embarrassed."

if by "...confused about their species....", you meant schools having liter boxes for kids to poop in, TURN OFF FOX NEWS.

Never heard of litter boxes in schools and now I'm wondering what I said to make myself sound like a member of the Fox News audience.

 

I think the situation is far more nuanced and complicated than anyone's personal observations can enunciate.

First off, when people have discussions about "kids these days", they are almost always focusing on aberrant behavior as though it is typical behavior (it's pretty hard not to), and then drawing upon typical behavior in the past as a comparison. The overwhelming majority of kids, both now and yesteryear, do NOT get in trouble in any significant way. Even if we try really hard to do apples-to-apples comparisons, our perceptions are skewed for all kinds of reasons -- we are viewing it from the standpoint of adults with a much broader experience base as compared to when we were teens and in the mix of things with a very narrow and myopic view of the world. The population is also much larger -- there's simply more kids to get in trouble. Also, the breadth of news coverage is so much more pervasive -- we used to only hear about the most outrageous extreme cases beyond our local area, now we are bombarded with even much more mundane cases from everywhere.

What you or I saw back then or see today is pretty much guaranteed to NOT be representative of either the way it was or the way it is. But, of course, there's no way to prevent those personal observations from having a very disproportionate impact on our perceptions of both.

I can certainly make observations about the changes I've seen over the decades in particular segments of the population that, at least on the surface, should provide some kind of a reference for a longitudinal view. For instance, kids involved with a particular youth organization I've been a member of for nearly half a century, or engineering students, or USAFA cadets. But the degree to which changes in those groups are accurate indicators in changes, or lack thereof, in "kids these days" is very problematic.

I am aware that we all have a limited view, only one piece of a large puzzle, but together I think those pieces add up a more accurate picture than any individual among us has (so long as we stick to actual first hand observation and don't just regurgitate stereotypes). I am asking for more pieces to the puzzle. I would be interested in hearing your observations of youth organizations, Engineering students, and USAFA cadets.

 

No I that's not what I meant but I can see why you would interpret it that way; I should have been more clear. When I said that I had one thing in mind. My youngest daughter is in 4th grade and she keeps bringing up "furries." She says a couple of her friends are furries and on more than one occasion she has told people that she is one too. She thinks it's just a cute make believe game, and isn't old enough for me to explain that it's a weird sex kink, so I just have to keep telling her "STOP saying that, you don't know what a furry is, you're NOT one, and if you knew what you were saying you would be really embarrassed."



Never heard of litter boxes in schools and now I'm wondering what I said to make myself sound like a member of the Fox News audience.

It's a minefield out there with some adults jumping to conclusions with your every word. Now just Imagine kids trying to navigate it at a very young age minus the life experience of a BS meter. It makes me happy mine are finally all grown.

The banned subject of middle-east protests IMO have shown how emotions and feelings can push 'kids' into the hands of supporting those (from very oppressive cultures, policies and governments) that would actually kill and/or torture them because of their sexuality/gender in the blink of an eye with little or no opposition from their general public while at the same time expressing horror living in countries where a small minority of bigots still express these ideas from the middle ages.

"Kids these days" for sure.

 

It's a minefield out there with some adults jumping to conclusions with your every word. Now just Imagine kids trying to navigate it at a very young age minus the life experience of a BS meter. It makes me happy mine are finally all grown.

The banned subject of middle-east protests IMO have shown how emotions and feelings can push 'kids' into the hands of supporting those (from very oppressive cultures, policies and governments) that would actually kill and/or torture them because of their sexuality/gender in the blink of an eye with little or no opposition from their general public while at the same time expressing horror living in countries where a small minority of bigots still express these ideas from the middle ages.

"Kids these days" for sure.

It is indeed confusing for some when the oppressors become the oppressed ... there are no good guys IMO, in that conflict ... but let's get back to topic ...

 

It is indeed confusing for some when the oppressors become the oppressed ... there are no good guys IMO, in that conflict ... but let's get back to topic ...

I know. My one young kid (19) is doing fine along with the vast majority of her school cohorts in the local tinderbox. Things are not as mad or bad as the general media presents with its concentration on flash points and criminal misbehaviours.

 

Things are not as mad or bad as the general media presents with its concentration on flash points and criminal misbehaviours.

That's what the media does, in general. It sells stress and anxiety to draw people's attention. And I agree with Strantor. I was an exchange student in Ohio back in 1981 and some of the things I saw at the public high school left me in shock. One cannot judge a situation in general based on red flags alone.

 

"Kids these days"

Kids these days for better or worse are just a reflection of the society at large...so stop blaming the kids...they are just kids.

"Hey teacher, leave them kids alone".

 

Kids don't "get out" like we did as kids. We found our entertainment outside the house and didn't have our noses glued to a cellphone or computer screen at home! We were almost constantly into "Mischief" either by purpose or unsupervised happenstance. Part of that is due to urbanization and my kids living in a semirural area without hardly any "neighbor" kids to get into mischief with. But once they left the nest and went to college they never came back. Other than our disabled son at home, one daughter is in Albania, another in Pittsburgh, and our son somewhere in Idaho. Once they saw the big light of the city... But none of them were the "wild children" their parents were!

 

I’d like to comment on the alleged pro Palestinian anti-semitic protests the media are obsessed with the last couple of months.

I don’t believe a word they are saying about it. Why? Because they were saying the same sort of things about the likes of me in 1970 when I was arrested protesting a senseless war. And most of it was untrue.

 

I've often heard people utter phrases like “today's kids are the worst” and “the world is going to shit”, but where did these phrases come from and are they true?

I think the answer to the first question is rather obvious: These words are concocted by disgruntled individuals who have had the unfortunate encounter with one or more malicious parties. In a sense, I think these folks have a right to complain but their complaints are generally unformulated and misdirected.

But are these statements representative of the whole, that is, the Earth or the universe itself? I think it is clear we do not and can not have the answer. Although, as a naturalist, I draw reasonable approximations simply by looking at the state of all living things as well as the Earth itself as a geophysical entity. For this the case becomes difficult to refute:

Take a look at medicine or innovation or combine the two: Getting to Mars without dying shortly after! Or go simpler yet, look at how cells in your body combine to “heal” a wound or how your DNA was fashioned in the first place! What does this say about the state of all living things? Clearly all living systems adapt and get better! This is abundantly clear simply by looking at the willingness of an organism to preserve it's own existence, but also the existence of the system that supports it! This symbiotic relationship exists at every strata of analysis. Sure parasitism occurs as a by-product but that relationship cannot last indefinitely. Eventually the parasite must find a new host and finding one is not certain.

I can pose this in a different light by asking: Does radical Nazism still exist? Specifically, is the movement getting stronger or weaker? Again I think the answer lies in our natural history. It is clear the good minded people (the children) of the modern world have sought to eradicate these obtuse ideologies and for the most part, have succeeded! Is this good news or bad news for the average person?

Now it can be argued that we might one day return to such evils but the evidence weighs heavily in the other direction. I'd go a step further to say there is a duty as a parent for you to teach your children about these things so they are not repeated or given further consideration. Again I can point to simple facts about the natural world:

Consider something like racism or nationalism. These rigid and murderous ideologies are not conspired by children. They are forced upon children by rigid and obtuse parents (the bulk of “society”). I'm particularly interested in understanding why the parents are this way rather than just looking at the devastation caused by their children. I think it's easy to see this is NOT a chicken and the egg problem! In the case of parents and kids, it's the parents doing the damage, not the kids. Eventually kids grow up to become parents and so a horrible cycle develops. The good news is kids are parented not just by their parents, but society itself. In the case of all those Nazi parents who weren't killed during the war, why aren't we seeing a mass movement of Nazism? Obviously the children figured out there are better ways to conduct ourselves!

Coming back to phrases like “today's kids are the worst” and “the world is going to shit”. I think these statements are not only wrong, but anti-true. They say nothing about the individual and they are a misrepresentation of the whole. My own observations suggest the desire for knowledge and technology are slowly iterating humanity forward toward goodness. Planes, integrated circuits, art and medicine are just a few of the examples of what the natural world produces. The thing to note is the majority of this was produced by the dead and remain artifacts of their era. We keep their planes because they are useful but their racism is not so useful. I think it's safe to say we will eventually eradicate racism and keep the planes.

 

Kids don't "get out" like we did as kids. We found our entertainment outside the house and didn't have our noses glued to a cellphone or computer screen at home! We were almost constantly into "Mischief" either by purpose or unsupervised happenstance. Part of that is due to urbanization and my kids living in a semirural area without hardly any "neighbor" kids to get into mischief with. But once they left the nest and went to college they never came back. Other than our disabled son at home, one daughter is in Albania, another in Pittsburgh, and our son somewhere in Idaho. Once they saw the big light of the city... But none of them were the "wild children" their parents were!

+1

 

I’d like to comment on the alleged pro Palestinian anti-semitic protests the media are obsessed with the last couple of months.

I don’t believe a word they are saying about it. Why? Because they were saying the same sort of things about the likes of me in 1970 when I was arrested protesting a senseless war. And most of it was untrue.

You're right, not much has changed. Being called a 'Baby Killer' while in Navy uniform in SF in the 70's means kids today are just as clueless.

 

y

You're right, not much has changed. Being called a 'Baby Killer' while in Navy uniform in SF in the 70's means kids today are just as clueless.

If you put a “some” in there I would agree with you completely. Here are four more false narratives for you that become true with the addition of that word.

Soldiers who served in Vietnam killed babies.

Vietnam protesters were communists (or controlled by communists) and hated America.

Vietnam protesters (and most other Americans) disparaged and discriminated against those who served.

“Pro Palestinian” protestors support Hamas are anti-Semitic and are influenced by terrorists (and hate America.)

I did’t call anyone a baby killer and I believe you did not kill any babies. And we are NOT the exceptions.

 

y

If you put a “some” in there I would agree with you completely. Here are four more false narratives for you that become true with the addition of that word.

Soldiers who served in Vietnam killed babies.

Vietnam protesters were communists (or controlled by communists) and hated America.

Vietnam protesters (and most other Americans) disparaged and discriminated against those who served.

“Pro Palestinian” protestors support Hamas are anti-Semitic and are influenced by terrorists (and hate America.)

I did’t call anyone a baby killer and I believe you did not kill any babies. And we are NOT the exceptions.

Thank you, "some" kids would be better and more accurate out of SF (IMO 'most' kids would be accurate there) even if I don't think the comparisons of VN era events and ME events now make much logical sense other than giving cover for "some" kids to raise hell. The same 'some' kids that couldn't point to Gaza on a world globe even if their lives depended on it.

 

MOD NOTE: Let's stop trying to turn this thread political -- we all know how that ends up.

 

For those who see the same things I see, what do you think are the reasons why "kids these days" would be more well behaved than previous generations?

My own hypotheses are:
1. The internet. Everyone runs around these days with a camera in their pockets capable of live broadcasting directly to a targeted audience of all your friends and family. You get drunk and pass out in the back of a friend's car, get a sharpie mustache, and your parents know about it before even you do. All the things we could do in secret as kids, they can't because some idiot involved won't be able to suppress the urge to film themselves in the act, or someone uninvolved will see and broadcast it.
2. Life is (or will be) harder for them. I'm sure some (most?) will disagree on this, call B.S. and say there has never been a more pampered generation and bla bla whatever, that's fine. But the economic fact is that this generation collectively will have to work harder and longer than the last few, and for less pay, and they know it. The numbers are freely available for anyone who doesn't have a prerogative to not look at them. They are not inheriting the same land of milk and honey that my grandparents, parents, or I did. They can't afford to be aloof and uncaring about their futures.
3. Tablets? I keep hearing about how this generation was raised by iPhones and tablets. Apparently they do a better job than humans.
4. Coddling? That's the other thing I always hear about them. Coddled, protected, pampered, spoiled. Maybe there is some truth to that and it turns out to be the right way to raise a productive member of society? I don't know, it doesn't explain my kids' success.

The one that makes the most sense to me is #2. Every time I see this image posted somewhere I agree with it a little more, even if it reflects poorly my own generation and that of my parents. We created the hard times they will have to endure, and the cycle will continue.