It was a mistake, alright... like fanning the nest of very angry wasps.

Yea, I can't imagine why the Sunnis might be upset with us.
We invade their country, kill 150,000 people, put a few million out of work and a home then create a civil war.
Sometimes liberation is painful.

 

I don't know of a bigger one than to give your life for it.
You can call it self preservation I suppose. But the result is the same. They are not fighting all Muslims. The question was about ISIS.

ISIS, it is a Muslim criminal death cult organisation that uses Radical Islam as it's rule book. I (and most of the world) don't equate ISIS with Muslims in general.

http://www.newsweek.com/isis-document-policy-sex-slaves-409591

The rules were put in place, the committee says in the fatwa, because “some of the brothers have committed violations in the matter of the treatment of female slaves. These violations are not permitted by Sharia law.”

The document is another example of how ISIS is attempting to impose state-like rules under the banner of its ancient version of Islamic law, with state institutions such as courts imposing Sharia law and officials imposing Islamic taxes on citizens living in the group’s self-proclaimed caliphate in Iraq and Syria.

 

@ronv

I doubt it will go back. The end game is never ended in a timely manner. Americans forget it was 16 years between the signing of the Declaration of Independence and the formation of the United States of America via what we called the Constitution of the United states of America.

WWII ended in 1945. When did military rule end in Germany and Japan? I mean Germany didn't reunite till after the wall fell, but West Germany was a thriving democracy by then. Even Ancient Greece with a city-state political subdivision, there were differences, notably between Athens and Sparta. It was a common Extinction Level Event (Invasion by Persia) that their differences were relegated to minute status. What is the difference today? Not much in my opinion, although the weapons of war improved greatly since then.

Iraq ended in elections. I seem to recall there is one document in US History that was made moot by the actions four score and seven years post where we declared it was our right to secede from our cousins across the pond. If we believe it is the countries right of self-determination, let them choose.

This is like some admiral asking for an opinion and then getting mad because someone expressed the wrong opinion. If you don't like the answer, don't ask the dam question.

 

ISIS it is a Muslim criminal death cult organisation that uses Radical Islam as it's rule book. I (and most of the world) don't equate ISIS with Muslims in general.

That doesn't seem to be the case for some here.

 

If we believe it is the countries right of self-determination, let them choose.

I agree. But unfortunately, most of the time that self-determination is done by a very loud, violent and determined minority, and not by the peaceful majority. The most evil of dictatorships are ussualy born because of the apathy of the general population. By trying to stay out of trouble as much as they can, trouble eventually comes to them, and by then it's too late.

 

But unfortunately, most of the time that self-determination is done by a very loud, violent and determined minority, and not by the peaceful majority.

That is true. Then it becomes a political venue to choose which cause is supported. As the military option, and there always is a military option, surfaces, we get into a disagreement on the end game, when a review of recent history (last 70 years) only illustrates the shifting political will is not as concrete as it was when the operations began. We always seem to find the quicksand.

 

@ronv





Iraq ended in elections. I seem to recall there is one document in US History that was made moot by the actions four score and seven years post where we declared it was our right to secede from our cousins across the pond. If we believe it is the countries right of self-determination, let them choose.

Four score and seven years ago our fathers brought forth on this continent, a new nation, conceived in Liberty, and dedicated to the proposition that all men are created equal.

But. but.. We chose for them.
Don't misunderstand, I'm all for freedom. I just think some places are better off with someone that can hold them together.
I wouldn't say our track record is to good in nation building.

 

That doesn't seem to be the case for some here.

That's quite understandable due to the natural human ability to detect patterns of danger. Radical Islam intentionally uses the common words, phases and actions of peaceful Muslims with its criminal activity to condition people for a automatic fear response at the sight of their symbols in the west. Just because I know intellectually that most Muslims just want to live peaceful lives with their families doesn't mean the fight-or-flight response to a lifetime of terror induced patterns is inactive.

Some people want to suppress those feelings while others are simply more open about it.

 

I just think some places are better off with someone that can hold them together.

Sadly, I think that's true. Some civilizations have not yet reached a level of maturity compatible with our democratic principles. Our intervention is akin to asking a 6 year old (to whom we're not even remotely related) to behave like a responsible adult.

 

Sadly, I think that's true. Some civilizations have not yet reached a level of maturity compatible with our democratic principles. Our intervention is akin to asking a 6 year old (to whom we're not even remotely related) to behave like a responsible adult.

Sure.
I hate to think about the American Civil War, but Lincoln forced his will on the American people.

 

Don't misunderstand, I'm all for freedom. I just think some places are better off with someone that can hold them together.
I wouldn't say our track record is to good in nation building.

Agreed. Sometimes it's better to deal with the devil you know vice the devil you don't. Unfortunately, the political drivers (polls) and publicized events, spur the interference from the Americans.

 

That's quite understandable due to the natural human ability to detect patterns of danger. Radical Islam intentionally uses the common words, phases and actions of peaceful Muslims with its criminal activity to condition people for a automatic fear response at the sight of their symbols in the west. Just because I know intellectually that most Muslims just want to live peaceful lives with their families doesn't mean the fight-or-flight response to a lifetime of terror induced patterns is inactive.

Some people want to suppress those feelings while others are simply more open about it.

And some people are just evil.

 

And some people are just evil.

Listen to your inner cat.

http://www.reuters.com/article/mideast-crisis-idUSKBN0UD05C20151230

U.S.-led forces have killed 10 Islamic State leaders in air strikes, including individuals linked to the Paris attacks, a U.S. spokesman said, dealing a double blow to the militant group after Iraqi forces ousted it from the city of Ramadi.

Iraqi Prime Minister Haider al-Abadi planted the national flag in Ramadi after the army retook the city centre from Islamic State, a victory that could help vindicate his strategy for rebuilding the military after stunning defeats.
...
"Others had designs on further attacking the West."

One of those killed was Abdul Qader Hakim, who facilitated the militants' external operations and had links to the Paris attack network, Warren said. He was killed in the northern Iraqi city of Mosul on Dec. 26.

Two days earlier, a coalition air strike in Syria killed Charaffe al Mouadan, a Syria-based Islamic State member with a direct link to Abdelhamid Abaaoud, the suspected ringleader of the coordinated bombings and shootings in Paris on Nov. 13 which killed 130 people, Warren said.

Mouadan was planning further attacks against the West, he added.

http://www.reuters.com/video/2015/12/29/putins-syria-campaign-paying-off?videoId=366831543

Despite President Obama’s early warning that Russian President Vladimir Putin would regret choosing to intervene in Syria, analysts and US officials agree that so far, Putin has achieved his objectives at little cost.

 

Listen to your inner cat.

Yes, cats a physic. We had one that could predict earthquakes.
She could also tell if there had been an ice pack on the bead in the last half hour.
I hope they can hold Ramadi, but it's going to be a long slog.10,000 Iraqi solders, 600 air strikes to get 300 to 500 ISIS guys to leave.
How do 500 guys hold a city of 200,000?
Same problem for Putin, I think. 220 Russians killed & 4 million a day in spending. Maybe not to much to save a naval base. But it will only work as long as Assad can pay the troops.
We should probably send him a thank you note.

 

We invade their country, kill 150,000 people, put a few million out of work and a home then create a civil war.
Sometimes liberation is painful.

That's a painful question that Americans can do a lot of soul-searching on.

America will be much stronger and safer, if you devote as much nation-building at home, in Ferguson, Baltimore, Chicago, and neighborhoods throughout ***this*** country.

But our politicians, especially Republicans, are too ideology-driven and too "bought-out" to understand that.

 

That's a painful question that Americans can do a lot of soul-searching on.

America will be much stronger and safer, if you devote as much nation-building at home, in Ferguson, Baltimore, Chicago, and neighborhoods throughout ***this*** country.

But our politicians, especially Republicans, are too ideology-driven and too "bought-out" to understand that.

Don't be to hard on them. The leader of the pack had this to say:

"We've spent $4 trillion trying to topple various people," Trump said. "If we could've spent that $4 trillion in the United States to fix our roads, our bridges and all of the other problems -- our airports and all of the other problems we've had -- we would've been a lot better off. I can tell you that right now."

 

I hope they can hold Ramadi, but it's going to be a long slog.10,000 Iraqi solders, 600 air strikes to get 300 to 500 ISIS guys to leave.
How do 500 guys hold a city of 200,000?
Same problem for Putin, I think. 220 Russians killed & 4 million a day in spending. Maybe not to much to save a naval base. But it will only work as long as Assad can pay the troops.
We should probably send him a thank you note.

It's like cockroaches, sometimes you have tent the house and poison everything to get the last one.

For Putin the decision was a good gamble. Russia keeps Assad who will be on a short Russian dog leash and local influence in the ME oil business. Plus he gets to show off the current Russian military force projection capability for future arms sales to other nations in the region with fewer questions asked from the buyers than US sales for modern weapons. Money in the bank from a lot of obsolete cold-war bombs and planes.

 

In the big scheme of things Eisenhower was correct with his "beware...." speech. When will we(politicians) quit the Groundhog Day act?

 

Today's Republican party, particularly its leadership, does not represent conservatives, not conservative principles. That, together with the liberal bias of the media and those political talking heads, is why they all had an extremely difficult time understanding Trump and what propelled his popularity today.

Over the last 50+ years, the Democrats have carved out a niche creating a permanent underclass (aka "modern slavery") whose votes are bought with government-funded welfare. They have done a fantastic job enlarging their base by representing the Mexicans, the Columbians, ..., and now the Syrians. Representation without taxation. Anyone but tax-paying and law-abiding Americans.

Similarly, the Republicans have craved out a niche representing the wealthy and special interest groups.

So what you have is quite similar to the tea-party times: the vast majority of Americans are complete foreigners in their own country -> taxation without representation.

What Trump did is to tell the truth: "the emperor has no cloth" -> something everyone knows but is too bullied by the media to speak about. He is giving voice to the unrepresented silent majority.

That is accentuated by the latest pull showing his support along racial lines: 45% of hispanics and 40% of blacks support Trump. Having had a con-artist, a liar, and a divider for the last 7 years, the country needs a revolution.

 

Over the last 50+ years, the Democrats have carved out a niche creating a permanent underclass (aka "modern slavery") whose votes are bought with government-funded welfare. They have done a fantastic job enlarging their base by representing the Mexicans, the Columbians, ..., and now the Syrians. Representation without taxation. Anyone but tax-paying and law-abiding Americans.

That's absolute BS. The safety net was created by Democrats and Republicans as a response to the Great Depression. It has not created any sort of modern slavery. I doubt you really know the definition of that word, but anyone who knows anything about slavery would not use the word to describe anything other than involuntary servitude. The programs that help the elderly, disabled, veterans and those left behind has created a basic, dignified life for those who would otherwise not have it. But not anything remotely close to slavery. That's nothing more than right wing misrepresentation of a despicable institution for the purpose of short-circuiting any intelligent discourse on the subject, such as heard daily on Fox and other right wing co-opted outlets that preach to small minded people. As such, it has no purpose on a site which was supposed to be dedicated to thoughtful and intelligent discourse.

You're clearly a right-wing shrill and want nothing more than to peddle your political noise here. Please go away.