Here is an interesting article from the LA Times
http://www.latimes.com/nation/la-na-warrior-main-20150524-story.html

Well done.

 

Yes, good article. I've sent it on to my daughter, who has just joined the Army.

 

They blame it on the US simply for its unwavering support of Israel, remember that both Christians and Jews are sworn enemies of islam.

Ahh, yes. Now your talking.
Tis a mean God that gives three religions the same holy place.
But I digress. Anyone have a plan for all out war?

 

They are children, lashing out at the world because they have discovered it is not to their liking.

That's true, but unfortunately that attitude is also embedded in their own scriptures, and until they either reform them (unlikely) or revise their interpretation (a far shot) things are not going to change.

 

A cynic would say their scriptures were written specifically to control them.

 

A cynic would say their scriptures were written specifically to control them.

I'd call that person a truth-sayer instead... I myself don't even consider islam a religion, but rather a form of government... remember, the word itself means submission

 

Yes, good article. I've sent it on to my daughter, who has just joined the Army.

I have a son that was in the Navy during the first Gulf war. He said he felt most threatened when the British were in range. I hope your daughter has nothing worse happen to her.

 

Thanks, me too. She's an officer in Physical Therapy training, so at least in theory should not see much "front line" duty.

 

Thanks, me too. She's an officer in Physical Therapy training, so at least in theory should not see much "front line" duty.

That's good to know, but she'll probably see some of the consequences of "front line" duty nevertheless... Your daughter (and also you, of course) has my admiration and respect.

 

He said he felt most threatened when the British were in range.

I'm sure the Coasties in VietNam felt the same about the U.S. Air Force after this:

 

That's true, but unfortunately that attitude is also embedded in their own scriptures, and until they either reform them (unlikely) or revise their interpretation (a far shot) things are not going to change.

So C,
Are you suggesting we are or soon will be at war with all Muslims?

 

Many of you guys have a very different view of history than what is real. The history of the middle east is not what is being told by many today. Before the crusades, the middle east was the center of technology, similar to the west today.

Knowing a couple of Muslim families they are not what the right want's us to think. They came to this country to escape the radical Islamist. ISIS only has "religion" to stir the people into fighting the west. It is not really Muslim, but a "death cult" looking for any way of forcing the west out of their(Arab) lands.

I still don't understand why many of you think we have a right/obligation to force them to be like us.

 

I still don't understand why many of you think we have a right/obligation to force them to be like us.

And yet, their proclamations say they have the right/obligation to force their beliefs/laws upon us.

It takes two to tango. The right/obligation issue is on both sides of every conflict.

Where is the genesis of the call to action? You will find public opinion is the grass root genesis for the call to action.

How about a beheading of an American reporter? I'd bet he thought he was protected by the First Amendment, but found out the First Amendment is only applicable in the United States and it's possessions.

When in Rome, do as the Romans.

The question of the day is: Can Sharia Law be applied to non-Muslims in the United States? Can Sharia Law co-exist in a nation governed by other laws?

There are those what wish to apply Sharia Laws that conflict with current federal, state, and local laws.

 

Many of you guys have a very different view of history than what is real. The history of the middle east is not what is being told by many today. Before the crusades, the middle east was the center of technology, similar to the west today.

Knowing a couple of Muslim families they are not what the right want's us to think. They came to this country to escape the radical Islamist. ISIS only has "religion" to stir the people into fighting the west. It is not really Muslim, but a "death cult" looking for any way of forcing the west out of their(Arab) lands.

I still don't understand why many of you think we have a right/obligation to force them to be like us.

The problem is, while most Muslims do not actively participate in Jihad, a sizable proportion don't actively reject it either.

The following link is to a partisan site, but the polls it links to are not. There are 1.6 billion Muslims in the world. While even a small percentage can cause great problems, the percentages in question are not small.

http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/pages/opinion-polls.htm

 

Knowing a couple of Muslim families they are not what the right want's us to think.

I think your observation confirms the notion that not all Muslims are nutjobs - there is no dispute on that.

What's being discussed is more of a generic observation of the muslim communities at large, however.

They came to this country to escape the radical Islamist.

That's really the source of the problem: if "radical islamists" aren't that wide spread, those wouldn't be the need for anyone to escape from them. For example, you aren't fleeing your neighborhood because of 1 or 2 isolated criminals.

The question for all is "why are there so many "radical islamists"?

Radical islamists aren't really the problem. The problem is with the "moderate islamists". More specifically, their refusal to condemn the radicals amongst them and to reform islam, to bring their religion of peace to the modern ages.

I still don't understand why many of you think we have a right/obligation to force them to be like us.

I think the problem is exactly the opposite: we aren't asking that the Muslims to conform to our religions or lack of. Instead, we are asking the Muslims don't conform us to their religion.

 

The question of the day is: Can Sharia Law be applied to non-Muslims in the United States? Can Sharia Law co-exist in a nation governed by other laws?

The answer to that question is no and that's a fundamental problem with Islam in western cultures today. We have progressed in the last 700 years to varying separations of religion (Laws of God) and secular law (Laws of People) to the point where secular law is supreme but usually accommodates some religious rules that push the limits even in some of the most repressive dictatorships. Sharia Law is incompatible with modern secular government and the US has been at war with it many times.

Tribute or war is the usual alternative of these pirates. If we yeild [sic] the former, it will require sums which our people will feel. Why not begin a navy then and decide on war? We cannot begin in a better cause nor against a weaker foe."5 Jefferson was convinced this solution would be more honorable, more effective, and less expensive than paying tribute.6

https://www.monticello.org/site/research-and-collections/first-barbary-war


Excerpt from the Barbary Pirates report from Jefferson and Adams to Congress:

"We took the liberty to make some inquiries concerning the Grounds of their pretentions to make war upon Nations who had done them no Injury, and observed that we considered all mankind as our friends who had done us no wrong, nor had given us any provocation.

"The Ambassador answered us that it was founded on the Laws of their prophet, that it was written in their Qur'an, that all nations who should not have acknowledged their authority were sinners, that it was their right and duty to make war upon them wherever they could be found, and to make slaves of all they could take as Prisoners, and that every Musselman [Muslim] who should be slain in battle was sure to go to Paradise."

 

I think the problem is exactly the opposite: we aren't asking that the Muslims to conform to our religions or lack of. Instead, we are asking the Muslims don't conform us to their religion.

You've hit the nail in the head with that one:

***
You who call yourselves liberals must understand that it is your way of life that is under threat. Withdraw my right to speak freely, and you jeopardize your own in the future. Ally yourselves with the Islamists at your peril. Tolerate their intolerance at your peril.
***
Multiculturalism should not mean that we tolerate another culture’s intolerance.
***
Islam, as Muhammad devised it, is not simply a religion or a system of worship. It is, as the social anthropologist Ernest Gellner has put it, “the blueprint of a social order.” 1
***
Ali, Ayaan Hirsi (2015-03-24). Heretic: Why Islam Needs a Reformation Now (p. 80). HarperCollins. Kindle Edition.

 

I think your observation confirms the notion that not all Muslims are nutjobs - there is no dispute on that.

What's being discussed is more of a generic observation of the muslim communities at large, however.



That's really the source of the problem: if "radical islamists" aren't that wide spread, those wouldn't be the need for anyone to escape from them. For example, you aren't fleeing your neighborhood because of 1 or 2 isolated criminals.

The question for all is "why are there so many "radical islamists"?

It's called a Civil war. We had one ourselves, complete with refugees.
Give the first few pages of this a read.
http://www.encyclopediavirginia.org/Refugees_During_the_Civil_War

Radical islamists aren't really the problem. The problem is with the "moderate islamists". More specifically, their refusal to condemn the radicals amongst them and to reform islam, to bring their religion of peace to the modern ages.

See Civil war above.

I think the problem is exactly the opposite: we aren't asking that the Muslims to conform to our religions or lack of. Instead, we are asking the Muslims don't conform us to their religion.

Think back to the day you first heard on the news that there was a fight with the Taliban - not Al-Qaeda, but Taliban.

 

This is going to get ugly fast I think. Thats why I didn't really want to post in this thread.

When you have nothing to loose but your life, some give it. Thats where many Muslims are. The Jihad is not a real holy war, just what it takes to rile people in to fighting.

As far as only Muslims being fanatic, what about the different "christian" groups (used uncapitalized on purpose)? Think - Koresh, McVay, the latest planned parenthood shooter. If they aren't 'radical' don't know what they are, but no one says, "get the radical christians".

This country was started on freedom of religion, that means all religions, not just the ones deemed to be "correct".

And go back and look at what Christianity was doing when it was the same age as Islam. And all the things they did to people that were nonbelievers. The only place that sharia law is trying to be implemented in the west, is in the minds of faux news and the other pundits of their ilk.

 

As far as only Muslims being fanatic, what about the different "christian" groups (used uncapitalized on purpose)? Think - Koresh, McVay, the latest planned parenthood shooter. If they aren't 'radical' don't know what they are, but no one says, "get the radical christians".

McVeigh (who studied the white supremacist "The Turner Diaries") was not a "christian" (bombing was revenge against the government for Waco, etc...) terrorist and the other two you named were complete nuts far from main line christian teachings of peace.

"The Jihad is not a real holy war"
The Jihadist disagree with you.

Islamists want to use Sharia law for Muslims in the west.

Not a right wing site.
http://www.onelawforall.org.uk/about/

Sharia law doesn’t promote minority rights and social cohesion

Proponents argue that the right to be governed by Sharia law is necessary to
defend minority rights. Having the right to religion or atheism, however, is not
the same as having the ‘right’ to be governed by religious laws. This is
merely a prescription for discrimination, inequality and culturally relative
rights. Rather than defending rights, it discriminates and sets up different and
separate systems, standards and norms for ‘different’ people. It reinforces
the fragmentation of society, and leaves large numbers of people, particularly
women and children, at the mercy of elders and imams. It increases
marginalisation and the further segregation of immigrant communities. It ensures
that immigrants and new arrivals remain forever minorities and never equal
citizens.

All political sides should see the truth.
http://www.onelawforall.org.uk/siding-with-the-oppressor-the-pro-islamist-left/