Inexpensive DC-DC converter/SMPS design idea and suitable topologies

Thread Starter

Hasan2019

Joined Sep 5, 2019
56
Last edited:

Papabravo

Joined Feb 24, 2006
17,646
Hi there,

I am looking for a customized design where good power solution can be applicable.

My aim is to develop a DC-DC sutable toloplogy ( flyback, buck, isolated ,..so on) converter with following parameter,

INPUT: 250 to 650 VDC

OUTPUT: 24V/5A , 5V/3A, 12V/2A

Take a look at the similar product, https://www.eaton.com/content/dam/e...verter-data-sheet-brochure-emob0008-en-us.pdf


https://www.bosch-mobility-solution...high-voltage-dc-dc-converter-generation-3evo/
I can't imagine these being good projects for someone without considerable design experience in designing SMPS (Switch-Mode Power Supplies).
 

Irving

Joined Jan 30, 2016
2,424
Hi there,

I am looking for a customized design where good power solution can be applicable.

My aim is to develop a DC-DC sutable toloplogy ( flyback, buck, isolated ,..so on) converter with following parameter,

INPUT: 250 to 650 VDC

OUTPUT: 24V/5A , 5V/3A, 12V/2A

Take a look at the similar product, https://www.eaton.com/content/dam/e...verter-data-sheet-brochure-emob0008-en-us.pdf


https://www.bosch-mobility-solution...high-voltage-dc-dc-converter-generation-3evo/
Given the availability of existing off-the-shelf-product you need to be clearer about what you consider customised and why these options (which are customisable) are not good choices.

From experience, designing, developing and building one yourself (or, more likely, with an experienced 3rd party) is unlikely to be easier or more cost-effective unless you expect to manufacture in large numbers or there is some over-riding physical or environmental constraint. Admittedly the 160W+ output capability is relatively simple (compared to the 1.8 - 2.5kW of some of the example products you link to) but doing so in an automotive environment and across those input voltage ranges poses certain non-trivial challenges.

What more can you tell us about your need and the reason behind it? And your budget?
 

Thread Starter

Hasan2019

Joined Sep 5, 2019
56
Given the availability of existing off-the-shelf-product you need to be clearer about what you consider customised and why these options (which are customisable) are not good choices.

From experience, designing, developing and building one yourself (or, more likely, with an experienced 3rd party) is unlikely to be easier or more cost-effective unless you expect to manufacture in large numbers or there is some over-riding physical or environmental constraint. Admittedly the 160W+ output capability is relatively simple (compared to the 1.8 - 2.5kW of some of the example products you link to) but doing so in an automotive environment and across those input voltage ranges poses certain non-trivial challenges.

What more can you tell us about your need and the reason behind it? And your budget?
Its for battery charger or EV application.
Lets think its saparate system for all output.
Offcourse this design is challenging since it has wide range of input.

For the basic case none of you will avoid this link, SMPS Power Supply Topologies: Comparison and Selection

Right at this moment I am thinking about quasi resonant flyback converter topology.
Take a look here what Infineon expart has made a note, 2-9.pdf (mouser.com)

To start with a simpliest one take a look at it, its HV pin takes 700V. https://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/u...6tisearch%3Dsearch-everything%26usecase%3DGPN, May be its input does not matched.

I found also an expensive one which might need many effort on firmware, this one is LLC topology in which primary side is based on a Full bridge stage, CRD-06600DD065N | Wolfspeed

What do you think now?
 
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Thread Starter

Hasan2019

Joined Sep 5, 2019
56
I can't imagine these being good projects for someone without considerable design experience in designing SMPS (Switch-Mode Power Supplies).
Lets say you are one of the Superman with knowledge like an Alien. You do know rockect science well.
Unfortunately your response suggest nothing!
 

Irving

Joined Jan 30, 2016
2,424
Its for battery charger or EV application.
Lets think its saparate system for all output.
Offcourse this design is challenging since it has wide range of input.

For the basic case none of you will avoid this link, SMPS Power Supply Topologies: Comparison and Selection

Right at this moment I am thinking about quasi resonant flyback converter topology.
Take a look here what Infineon expart has made a note, 2-9.pdf (mouser.com)

To start with a simpliest one take a look at it, its HV pin takes 700V. https://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/u...6tisearch%3Dsearch-everything%26usecase%3DGPN, May be its input does not matched.

I found also an expensive one which might need many effort on firmware, this one is LLC topology in which primary side is based on a Full bridge stage, CRD-06600DD065N | Wolfspeed

What do you think now?
I think, given your responses to other forum members regarding your apparent lack experience of actually doing this, that you are sadly deluded that you could develop something yourself in any reasonable timescale at an end cost that would be significantly cheaper than what's currently available.

Reading all those documents is one thing; actually making choices needs to be based on experience and knowledge. Even if I was to give you my expert opinion, I don't think you have the skills, knowledge or experience to design, build and get working even a basic prototype, let alone something that could be commercially manufactured (designing for manufacture is a specialist skill in its own right). There is a world of difference between a hobby project and something you can sell & warrant commercially in the automotive market. Testing is everything & is expensive.

I've been doing this stuff for years and even I would think twice about starting a project of this scale without an experienced team and some serious financial resources behind me.

Sorry if you think I'm being hard on you but you have to be realistic. Show us some evidence you have some electronic system design & build expertise at this level and we'll be happy to help.
 

Papabravo

Joined Feb 24, 2006
17,646
Lets say you are one of the Superman with knowledge like an Alien. You do know rockect science well.
Unfortunately your response suggest nothing!
I did suggest something, you just chose to ignore what I was trying to say because you are laser focused on your goal and you believe you are up to any challenge.
 

ronsimpson

Joined Oct 7, 2019
1,760
It looks like the power supply takes power from a electric car battery. Right voltage range. It looks like it powers accessories. USB charger and 12V and 24V. Seems like a reasonable power supply.

Back in post #5, the WolfSpeed design will work well at high voltage. Most flyback designs will need 1200V mosfets in this application. application note WolfSpeed full bridge. I probably would have gone half bridge. This is a good place to start. I would use a separate filter inductor not one built into the transformer.
--edited--
Now that I reread the Wolfspeed paper it is "resonant" and those are complicated. I was looking for a non resonant forward half or full bridge supply example for you. The reason for forward (in this case) is that the MOSFETs so only the supply voltage. In flyback you need high voltage MOSFETs.
 
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Sice1945

Joined Nov 23, 2021
3
Its for battery charger or EV application.
Lets think its saparate system for all output.
Offcourse this design is challenging since it has wide range of input.

For the basic case none of you will avoid this link, SMPS Power Supply Topologies: Comparison and Selection

To start with a simpliest one take a look at it, its HV pin takes 700V. https://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/u...6tisearch%3Dsearch-everything%26usecase%3DGPN, May be its input does not matched.

I found also an expensive one which might need many effort on firmware, this one is LLC topology in which primary side is based on a Full bridge stage, CRD-06600DD065N | Wolfspeed. When your work is ready, don't forget to create the right, competent logo. I often used additional sources in the form of an https://masterbundles.com/graphics/logos/ when I needed help - I just downloaded ready-made premium logo design bundles and modified them for the customer. They can help you when there is absolutely no inspiration or strength to create a design on your own.

What do you think now?
Once I had to use in my work a powerful XL4016 buck converter with a wide operating voltage range from 5V to 40V and a current of up to 9A. The total power of the converter is about 300W. In the maximum mode, it is desirable to use forced airflow of the components. Usually used to build homemade power supplies or as an LED driver
 
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Thread Starter

Hasan2019

Joined Sep 5, 2019
56
Once I had to use in my work a powerful XL4016 buck converter with a wide operating voltage range from 5V to 40V and a current of up to 9A. The total power of the converter is about 300W. In the maximum mode, it is desirable to use forced airflow of the components. Usually used to build homemade power supplies or as an LED driver
Does it compatibale with such high range of input?
 
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