I'm looking for somebody from Japan here :-)

Thread Starter

Maciek Gromek

Joined May 8, 2017
72
I for one don't understand why you are concerned with this. You ask about Japan but don't live there. and you want to make something for the Japanese market? Who if they thought it was marketable would be doing it themselves. But then again, I might be missing something, can you correct my thinking?
You are technically right. No I don't have particular purpose about the introducing any stuff into the market, at least for now. The deal was just the kind of vision (maybe a naive vision) about running the stuff You bought abroad in the different side of the Earth and just plug it in, You know, without transformers, inverters etc.
 

spinnaker

Joined Oct 29, 2009
7,830
You are technically right. No I don't have particular purpose about the introducing any stuff into the market, at least for now. The deal was just the kind of vision (maybe a naive vision) about running the stuff You bought abroad in the different side of the Earth and just plug it in, You know, without transformers, inverters etc.

And how would you expect to be able to do that without.

1. Getting everyone on the same system which would be nearly impossible.

2. Build the convertor right into the device? Some larger devices are universal but for smaller devices, it simply makes more sense to carry a convertor.
 

Thread Starter

Maciek Gromek

Joined May 8, 2017
72
And how would you expect to be able to do that without.

1. Getting everyone on the same system which would be nearly impossible.

2. Build the convertor right into the device? Some larger devices are universal but for smaller devices, it simply makes more sense to carry a convertor.
The systems are different, and that's why I thought about it. I think the point is, some big stuff like vacuum cleaner, hairdryer run differently, when we accept 2000 watts, and for example 100 volt 20 amps, when it goes more "softly" and when is 200 volt 10 amps it has a bigger "kick" on the start. Correct when I'm wrong (I'm not an electrician). North America has at least 200 volts right now almost everywhere, but has still the big appliances on only 120 volts. I know that 240 v (2 hot wires) are not in the bathroom for example, but it's possible to do. So there are 2 options: 1) 120v are really safer and do not break down the appliance so fast as 240 volts, or 2) it's kind of the political reason that N. America doesn't want a possibility of buying to much stuff from Europe.
But maybe there are more possibilities
 
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MaxHeadRoom

Joined Jul 18, 2013
28,820
N.A. is mainly has a 15amp limit for most household appliances, you may find the odd 20amp, but over this, 240v is used.
Hair dyers usually max out at 1600w in order to stay under the 15amps.
Max.
 

Thread Starter

Maciek Gromek

Joined May 8, 2017
72
N.A. is mainly has a 15amp limit for most household appliances, you may find the odd 20amp, but over this, 240v is used.
Hair dyers usually max out at 1600w in order to stay under the 15amps.
Max.
This is a big advantage of 100-130v system, that the power of appliances are lower, so lower are the costs for customers. I think I wrote it in the thread "Electric systems in different regions" the hairdryers producing nowadays are 1900 to over 2000 watts and they have extra heat option, extra speed option or ionning the hair (especially for women I think). The lowest power iron what I saw in America is about 350 W and in Europe is 1000 W ! There are also the steam irons in America are 1700 W and in Europe 2700 W ! The electric kettles in America are about 850 W and in Europe 2000 W to even 2400 W is a standard (In the UK 3000 W). I think that similary is with the washing-machines. That advantages by american and european maeke me think about some kind of one double-system. Do You think that the higher voltage makes the power usage higher? Or it's just possibility to increase the power?
Regards
 
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Thread Starter

Maciek Gromek

Joined May 8, 2017
72
I for one don't understand why you are concerned with this. You ask about Japan but don't live there. and you want to make something for the Japanese market? Who if they thought it was marketable would be doing it themselves. But then again, I might be missing something, can you correct my thinking?
I'm still inspired what You've written about making something for the market, but not only for Japanese. You know I've talked one time with my colleague from work, I started talking about the standard voltage in North America 120v. He was in favor more for 200 volts because of the bigger power of appliances in Europe and faster time of working actually, but I told him about lower power of the 120v appliances and lower costs of bill for energy and he was like "whoever prefers" and I think now that the customer could decide what prefers. That would of course implicate the mixing of the different appliances on the market and this is a expensive work in the households but I think it could be the future. I got the the first idea for doing something: in Brazil they have different voltages in the different regions and different voltage appliances, they could have two options in the house ...
If anybody want to do the business, write to me ;)
 

shortbus

Joined Sep 30, 2009
10,049
@ Maciek Gromek, You do understand that very few people would buy an appliance outside of the area they live don't you? And that appliance makers make things to work with the voltages where they market the appliance? With the number of things already in the market place to do this type of thing for travelers, I don't see it as a big seller. But if you do, go for it.
 

Thread Starter

Maciek Gromek

Joined May 8, 2017
72
@ Maciek Gromek, You do understand that very few people would buy an appliance outside of the area they live don't you? And that appliance makers make things to work with the voltages where they market the appliance? With the number of things already in the market place to do this type of thing for travelers, I don't see it as a big seller. But if you do, go for it.
Yes I know that, I just actually wanted to make a discussion but now I can see that these are kind of political things on the level of countries and world regions.
 

shortbus

Joined Sep 30, 2009
10,049
Yes I know that, I just actually wanted to make a discussion but now I can see that these are kind of political things on the level of countries and world regions.
But we are discussing it, it just isn't what you want to hear. Your talking about something that manufacturers do all the time, to try and get into a market with a product that isn't wanted or needed is just not practical. But you're free to try.
 

Thread Starter

Maciek Gromek

Joined May 8, 2017
72
Ok, may I have a different question? How do You all think by Your knowledge and experience, is that possible to put a medium voltage (a few kilovolts) to exist in the walls of the buildings?
 

nsaspook

Joined Aug 27, 2009
13,521
Ok, may I have a different question? How do You all think by Your knowledge and experience, is that possible to put a medium voltage (a few kilovolts) to exist in the walls of the buildings?
What exactly do you mean by 'exist'? Do you mean as a primary distribution circuit, utility branch circuit or simply as a voltage generated locally in a circuit?
 

spinnaker

Joined Oct 29, 2009
7,830
Ok, may I have a different question? How do You all think by Your knowledge and experience, is that possible to put a medium voltage (a few kilovolts) to exist in the walls of the buildings?

You and I have a different definition of "medium" if you think kilovolts is medium. ;)

And what reputable governing body on earth do you think would allow someone to feed something in the kilovolt rage through the walls of a building? Other than to leave a power generation facility that is, and it wouldn't be going through walls.
 

nsaspook

Joined Aug 27, 2009
13,521
You and I have a different definition of "medium" if you think kilovolts is medium. ;)

And what reputable governing body on earth do you think would allow someone to feed something in the kilovolt rage through the walls of a building? Other than to leave a power generation facility that is, and it wouldn't be going through walls.
IEEE Standards Terms (IEEE 100) defines medium voltage as “a class of nominal system voltages greater than 1,000 V but less than 100,000 V.”
It's a 'term of art'.;)

There are medium voltage internal distribution systems for heavy electrical uses (like shipyards) but I don't think he's talking about that.
 
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Thread Starter

Maciek Gromek

Joined May 8, 2017
72
That's true that governments don't want too big voltages. That internal distribution is what I'm interested in, but I'm thinking mainly about primary distribution with transformers in the buildings (like from 277/480v to 120/208v in America) and it's again about Japan, I've never heard they have greater low voltages than only 200 v, so the only one answer for large buildings like skyscrapers is medium voltage in the structure of the building, unless Idk they have super thick wires, voltage filters or sending wirelessly o_O I could not find these informations in the internet.
 

Teljkon

Joined Jan 24, 2019
267
ThanYou all very much, I actually knew these information about electricity in Japan, and my purpose was to talk about my "crazy" idea, to create in imagination the theoretical system to deliver.... American and European standard to one theoretical household (It sounds expensively, I know). The distribution You need to that, it's actually... the direct current, and it comes to favor nowadays with high voltage direct current distribution. From dirrect current I could get everything what I want (at least me, personally), because when You want to change for example from 60 to 50 hz frequency, You always need direct current first. So I can get single phase 120/240v 60 hz and 3-phase 230/400v 50 hz from the direct current to the one theoretical customer. Of course thanks to the inverters. But I know from history that direct current distribution can be not so effective as alternating curent, and this reminds me the system in Japan, where the net is mostly on AC but in the half of the country where You need to change the frequency there are the rectifiers for direct current to change from 50 to 60 hz and vice versa, and this is what I wanted to talk with the japanese electrician, but if You got some opinions please write. Regards
Interesting I know a guy that did this for DC appliances in the US so he could run direct off solar. If you don't turn some one up here I know a American electrician who lived in japan. I will see if i can give you his name and you can reach out threw linked or e-mail.
 
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