I want to get your take on this thing. I recently built a log home and moved in last year. I brought 4 "Atomic" clocks with me, and none of them will get a signal behind these logs. Here on the east coast the WWVB signal is marginal as it is already. So I built a GPS to WWVB converter/transmitter. It consists of a small board with GPS, a wall wart, and a 100ft coil of common telephone wire as the 60KHz antenna. It gets the time from the GPS, figures out the DST bits and other things in the WWVB format, and generates a WWVB broadcast. I have the antenna strung out in the attic in a large 30ft diameter circle. This can set a clock from 200ft away so it's probably a little overkill. FCC limits on a broadcast at this frequency is a max signal strength of 40uV/M at 1000ft. I think I'm right about there and probably a little less. Anyway, I am considering selling this thing, thinking that there are probably many people on the east coast with non-functioning Atomic clocks. My concern is the price. In onesies, my cost is approximately $5 for the adapter, $7 for the phone wire, $10 for the GPS, and around $15 for everything else. Almost 40 bucks total, so it would have to sell for $80 or so. Do you think I'll make any money?

 

Now that you've told the Chinese how to make the product for a few dollars it's not very likely.

 

For such a commercial venture, won't you need some (probably expensive) Official (FCC?) Approval for the kit? The 60kHz antenna signal will obviously be detectable beyond property boundaries.

 

Do you think I'll make any money?

No.

I would have tried to find out what was preventing the clock from getting the time. Any local sources of interference? Have you tried putting the clock outside? Have you tried changing the orientation?

It's the signal to noise ratio that you care about. Alaska is outside of the "normal" range of the signal, but some clocks still work because of lower background noise.

If the usual fixes didn't help, I would have connected an external antenna to the clock.

 

I want to get your take on this thing. I recently built a log home and moved in last year. I brought 4 "Atomic" clocks with me, and none of them will get a signal behind these logs. Here on the east coast the WWVB signal is marginal as it is already. So I built a GPS to WWVB converter/transmitter. It consists of a small board with GPS, a wall wart, and a 100ft coil of common telephone wire as the 60KHz antenna. It gets the time from the GPS, figures out the DST bits and other things in the WWVB format, and generates a WWVB broadcast. I have the antenna strung out in the attic in a large 30ft diameter circle. This can set a clock from 200ft away so it's probably a little overkill. FCC limits on a broadcast at this frequency is a max signal strength of 40uV/M at 1000ft. I think I'm right about there and probably a little less. Anyway, I am considering selling this thing, thinking that there are probably many people on the east coast with non-functioning Atomic clocks. My concern is the price. In onesies, my cost is approximately $5 for the adapter, $7 for the phone wire, $10 for the GPS, and around $15 for everything else. Almost 40 bucks total, so it would have to sell for $80 or so. Do you think I'll make any money?

Check how much it costs to get the FCC to give you permission to fill the 60kHz with garbage data that will prevent others from receiving WWVB.

Then divide by the number of units you plan to sell. Add that to the unit cost.

Also, ask your friends and family if they would pay $80 for a WWVB relay. Chances are, the answer is no. Most people don't wear watches any more, most people don't buy clocks - they look at their mobile phone.

 

Interesting concept, economics aside. Rather than requiring your customers to have a 30' diameter antenna with all of the FCC stuff that that entails, can you get a GPZDA (date and time) NEMA-0183 sentence out of your GPS module and make your own clock display from that?

Nice pic of the MU-2 BTW

 

For such a commercial venture, won't you need some (probably expensive) Official (FCC?) Approval for the kit? The 60kHz antenna signal will obviously be detectable beyond property boundaries.

Intentional radiators below 100KHz are allowed emissions that do not exceed 40 microvolts per meter signal strength at 1000 ft distance. I'm pretty sure I fall below that.

 

No.

I would have tried to find out what was preventing the clock from getting the time. Any local sources of interference? Have you tried putting the clock outside? Have you tried changing the orientation?

It's the signal to noise ratio that you care about. Alaska is outside of the "normal" range of the signal, but some clocks still work because of lower background noise.

If the usual fixes didn't help, I would have connected an external antenna to the clock.

Like I said in my original post, it's due to the thickness of the walls. I can move one 3 feet and put it in a window and I can receive the signal fine. Hang one anywhere on a wall or on a nightstand inside and nothing. And these things don't have an external antenna port.

 

I don't know what WWVB is, or really even an atomic clock. That's OK though, you want a niche market. Is it a big enough nich though? Do people that do know enough about your device to want one, not want to make their own? Is finding out about, and buying your kit worth the savings of scaring up the pieces separately and doing it?

 

Interesting concept, economics aside. Rather than requiring your customers to have a 30' diameter antenna with all of the FCC stuff that that entails, can you get a GPZDA (date and time) NEMA-0183 sentence out of your GPS module and make your own clock display from that?

Nice pic of the MU-2 BTW

I'm using the GPRMC sentence. Same stuff - date & time, but most GPS modules come with the RMC sentence being output without requiring any setup. Anyway, clock won't set from GPS time format. WWVB sends the date as day-of-year, and it sends a couple of bits for DST switchover that these clocks use to switch at 2AM. GPS doesn't do DST. If that isn't enough, GPS modules send their message at 9600 baud or thereabouts and a WWVB message is sent at 1 baud - taking a full minute to complete.

And that MU2... biggest plane I ever flew. Twitchy. Even on a calm day you'd wear yourself out in no time without autopilot.

 

I think increasing the sensitivity of an atomic clock receiver would be the better strategy. Anyone in the market for an atomic clock might be willing to pay a few extra dollars for higher quality. Maybe.

I can't imagine anyone spending $80 on an add-on to a $10 atomic clock. They can just look at their phone.

 

I don't know what WWVB is, or really even an atomic clock. That's OK though, you want a niche market. Is it a big enough nich though? Do people that do know enough about your device to want one, not want to make their own? Is finding out about, and buying your kit worth the savings of scaring up the pieces separately and doing it?

Believe me, I looked before I took on this project. No kits, no finished product anywhere. And if there ever was a niche for something this is it. Very very small, I know. But I'm not looking to get rich from it, just a few thousand.

 

I can't imagine anyone spending $80 on an add-on to a $10 atomic clock. They can just look at their phone.

I agree. A solution looking for a problem, and an expensive solution at that. $80 to fix a $10 clock? And crawling through 30 feet of attic to install it? If I had an atomic clock that didn't atomic, I would just re-set it a couple of times per year like I already do with about 6 other clocks. Besides, who cares if I'm 30 microseconds or a whole minute late for an appointment? The TV programs don't even change that accurately. I set a clock to the instant one channel changes programs, and it's off by a whole minute on another channel!

What's the target market? Obsessive Compulsive Disorder with a clock fetish?

 

A few thousand? Let's shoot for $3,000. At $40 a pop, you will have to sell a total of 75. If your cost estimates are good... Does "everything else" include shipping? Let's say that's another $10. And how are you going to advertise your device? Most forums discourage self promotion. And what about your time? How long will it take you to assemble seventy-five of these? I would guess that the $3,000 is payment for your time.

Still, adding in just the $10 to ship, increases the amount you would have top manufacture to 100. Note that a mistake in estimating the cost of 25% increases the number manufactured 33%...

And you think you fall outside the FCC licensing requirements. What if you are wrong?

All we are saying is that think this out carefully.

 

And these things don't have an external antenna port.

It was difficult to pick out salient details in your first post because you put a lot of unrelated thoughts in one big paragraph...

I think you could add a connection for an external antenna for less than $40; including the wire for the antenna.

 

I don't know what WWVB is, or really even an atomic clock.

WWVB is LF radio station operated by NIST in Colorado that broadcasts time that can be used by radio controlled clocks use to synchronize their time periodically.

 

Hello,

WWVB is for america.
In europe we have DCF77:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DCF77

Bertus

 

Appreciate everyone's thoughts. Not a very popular idea it seems. I guess I'm about the only one who has an OCD over accurate time, and with 4 clocks that used to need setting and updating for DST. Oh well, maybe I'll post this as a Project article. Or maybe I'll take a stab at it anyway and see what happens.

 

This looks more fun.
https://learn.adafruit.com/arduino-...w_raR9q5kR2E11VAF0uQQEUvyR2scqwkvEaAj7D8P8HAQ

 

This looks more fun.
https://learn.adafruit.com/arduino-...w_raR9q5kR2E11VAF0uQQEUvyR2scqwkvEaAj7D8P8HAQ

The real fun for that project would be to add daylight saving time switchover in the software.