how to determine the frequency which vibrates an atomic bond so it breaks

Thread Starter

sebashtun dakeng

Joined Oct 19, 2018
8
how can we shatter an atomic bond by using the right frequency that makees it vibrate and break :V is it possible ? say we use a frequency generator for that purpose , what way can we use to determine the frequency needed , is there a frequency reciever that can be used for that purpose ?
 

jpanhalt

Joined Jan 18, 2008
10,221
If you are talking about vibrational energies, not electron (molecular orbital) excitation, those frequencies are generally in the infrared part of the spectrum. That will typically be on the order of 10^14 Hz.

It is unlikely your generator goes that high or has enough power to cause bond breakage.

See here: https://www2.chemistry.msu.edu/faculty/reusch/virttxtjml/spectrpy/infrared/infrared.htm

This reference explains the relationship of frequency and wavelength:
https://www2.chemistry.msu.edu/faculty/harrison/cem483/wavenumbers.pdf
 

wayneh

Joined Sep 9, 2010
16,399
Well, NMR technology is based on using radio waves to tune into the resonance frequencies of atomic nuclei of atoms that are participating in molecular bonds held in a magnetic field. The frequency, for example in the 900MHz range, is varied and the absorption of RF energy at a specific frequency is indicative of resonance and the presence of a certain type of nuclei and bond. But I don't think the RF ever breaks any of the molecular bonds, it just causes the nuclei to resonate.

I'm not aware of a "disruptor ream" type technology you are asking about. That doesn't mean it doesn't exist.
 

Papabravo

Joined Feb 24, 2006
14,404
Did you have a particular type of chemical bond in mind? The reason I ask is that there are more than a dozen different types of bonds.

e.g. drop table salt into water and the ionic bond between the sodium and the chlorine is broken easily by the action of the solvent.
 

bertus

Joined Apr 5, 2008
20,752
Hello,

The NMR that @wayneh mentioned is to be a non destructive measurement method.
The bonds will not be broken using NMR.
Each nuclei has its own resonance frequency at a specific magnetic field.
Here is a sample of the LAMOR frequency table:

Lamor_frequency_part.png

The complete table can be found in the attached PDF.

Bertus
 

Attachments

BR-549

Joined Sep 22, 2013
4,938
An atomic bond has multiple resonances. And we can only detect the very low ones. And if we had the hardware and the physical engineering, we could sweep an atom and get a complete profile.

We are talking 10^25-30 Hz. This is much, much higher than any current or charge detection could do. These high resonances are not oscillatory....they are rotational. The oscillatory resonance of an atom.....is caused from the un-equal and opposing rotations.

We will need a strategy of gamma frequency beating and mixing down to laser to detect. We need controlled proton emission for source. Or some new type of laser multiplying into the black. We are developing tech materials that can be shocked into many THz bands....we hope this improves greatly.

An x-ray can easily break the electron bond and spin an electron from an atom. But it takes gamma to spin a proton or neutron out.

To break an atomic bond.....increase the rotation. It will fly right out. It's the wrong RPM, that ejects a particle. Only a certain set of RPMs can bond.
 

MisterBill2

Joined Jan 23, 2018
7,000
Aside from the fact that breaking bonds mechanicaly takes a lot of energy, a method that was successful could start a rather nasty chain reaction, possibly similar to an atomic bomb going off. So I suggest that breaking bonds that way is not a good idea. And I hope that you are more than 20 miles away from me, just in case.
 

jpanhalt

Joined Jan 18, 2008
10,221
Yes, radical chain reactions can create spontaneous, uncontrolled disassembly of whatever apparatus that happens in. I had three such experiences in school. However, no one even next door was affected, much less 20 miles away.

Back to the TS, I think his question was about using radio waves to disrupt chemical bonds in molecules. I interpreted that to mean cause chemical reactions. In my original response, I wanted to include a chart of frequencies and corresponding motions (rotation,translation, vibration). I found such a chart here:
upload_2019-2-2_7-5-14.png
Source:
http://life.nthu.edu.tw/~labcjw/BioPhyChem/energy.htm

Now, to convert wavenumber to frequency (as shown before), multiply by the speed of light. Since the typical wavenumber is in cm^-1, I find using c = 3x10^10 cm/sec avoids conversions.

Thus, a vibrational resonance at 1000 cm-1 equates to 30 THz or well above most frequency generators. If you prefer, here's an online calculator:https://www.ape-berlin.de/en/calculator/ However, low translational levels on the order of ,say 1 cm-1 = 30 GHz, are in the radio spectrum.

The human body emits its most intense IR at about 12 u (833 cm-1) or 25 THz. And of course we know that a lot of chemical reactions are promoted at body temperature. My answer to the TS? Just use heat as your generator.
 
Top