GREEN battery tech... or a simple economic rip-off

kubeek

Joined Sep 20, 2005
5,621
Well, it apparently is full of salty water, no wonder it is huge. Wiki says that sodium ion batteries are big and heavy, but are cheap and polar bear friendly, which suits them for large installations like solar and wind power storage etc.
 

Thread Starter

Kermit2

Joined Feb 5, 2010
4,163
$1,350 is CHEAP?

You can get the same ampacity and voltage in lead acid for about $100 and less than half the weight and one quarter the physical size.

Stainless steel, manganese oxides and salt water. All very very cheap compared to lead metal prices.

So are you paying for product or just to feel good about the choice?
 

nsaspook

Joined Aug 27, 2009
6,478
It's really GREEN, it quickly transfers the Green from your pocket into their pocket. They have a small useful application space for bulk storage (round-trip energy efficiency of 85 percent, that's actually very good) but the lower energy density and higher cost seem to be limiting factors for wider use.

https://energymag.net/round-trip-efficiency/
 

Thread Starter

Kermit2

Joined Feb 5, 2010
4,163
It doesn't use any special space age, or nanotechnology.
No special manufacturer for exotic materials involved.
No rare earth's or other scarce resources used.

What justifies the 1000% mark up other than greed and BS.

Similar to the oxygen free copper wire and gold plated connections malarkey for Mon$ter cables sold to audiofools for hundreds of dollars.

It GREEN. Yeah, so is my lawn a week after a good rain.
 

wayneh

Joined Sep 9, 2010
16,114
It doesn't use any special space age, or nanotechnology.
No special manufacturer for exotic materials involved.
No rare earth's or other scarce resources used.

What justifies the 1000% mark up other than greed and BS.
That may be a bit harsh. I mean, developing and commercializing a new (to the market) technology to compete against a 100-yr old, well-established technology isn't easy. They may have done their marketing and know there is a niche to fill at the higher price, allowing them to get going with some volume while they get costs down. If you were guiding this project, would your initial pricing be at lead-acid pricing?
 

Thread Starter

Kermit2

Joined Feb 5, 2010
4,163
Maybe double or triple

But 1000% markup?
You say it may be reasonable, but would YOU buy one?
Who here would buy one and be Happy about it? I would like to know.
 

mcgyvr

Joined Oct 15, 2009
5,394
Maybe the CEO used to work for the prescription drug market?
1000% markup there is nothing..


Welcome to the world..
 

tcmtech

Joined Nov 4, 2013
2,868
If you were guiding this project, would your initial pricing be at lead-acid pricing?
Actually yes I would. The best and long proven way you gain market share is to supply a superior product for the same or less than those you compete against not price gouge your customer base and try and sell them feel good story to justify it. :rolleyes:
 

wayneh

Joined Sep 9, 2010
16,114
But 1000% markup?
1000% of what, direct raw material? Throw in R&D, capital investments and so on, and spread all that over a smallish projected market. It's not so obvious to me that it's a goldmine for the producer.

And anyway, you price to the market, not your own costs, which are irrelevant to the pricing decision unless you're in a commodity market.
 

wayneh

Joined Sep 9, 2010
16,114
Actually yes I would. The best and long proven way you gain market share is to supply a superior product for the same or less than those you compete against not price gouge your customer base and try and sell them feel good story to justify it. :rolleyes:
Hahaha, yes, the old "sell it at a loss and make it up on volume" approach.
 

Thread Starter

Kermit2

Joined Feb 5, 2010
4,163
1000% of retail lead acid, not cost.

I would say something about reading comprehension, but I know you can read and only mentioned cost of materials to create an arguable point that was not in my post.

So go buy some already if the business model is good by your reasoning, or would that be putting to much of your $kin in the game?
 

wayneh

Joined Sep 9, 2010
16,114
It may have a legitimate niche market. I'm not in it, that's for sure.

How does it compare to one of Tesla's home battery packs? That may be a lot closer to the target market, which might be sympathetic to the green angle.
 
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