Going green !!!!I have not seen anything on this topic on the forum, so should we disscus it ?. Everyone seems to be talking about it.let's tart with lead free (as this is an electronics forum). I have spoken many times on the subject, and all discussions lead to the same conclusion "it aint working".60/40 lead will melt at about 177 deg, lead free solder requires a much higher temprature. Virtualy all electronic equipment is now done in surface mount, the soldering is done by placing the PCB with components in place into an oven to allow the melting of the solder paste.Now at 177 to 200 or so degrees all is fine as most of the components are able to withstand the heat for the short time that they pass through the soldering process. Now with the soldering temprature almost double, the component failure rate is much higher, This means more rejects and therefore more waste (not so green).Where do we get lead form ? (out of the ground)... Where does it go when we dispose of it ? (back in the ground) !!!!!Recently, manufacturers have diposed of billions of electronic components just to meet the new reg's.What about us (the home constructors). What do I do with my stock of 1.5 million or so components ? "well I am hanging onto them".Now let,s move onto re-cycling...We are told that we should re-cycle all that we can (great idea).So how come I was told that I was breaking the law re-cycling my bottles.I will tell you, "answer:- you are a business and are not permitted to use re-cycling bins !!!Oh yes and I was threatened with a £400 fine if I did it again....Rite !! Carbon dioxide:- being blamed for ending the world, well maybe we should stop breathing and destroy all animals, that would reduce CO2.During war, explosives do more damage to the atmosphere than we are told.Has anyone stoped to think of other sources of CO2.... When you next open your nice cold can of beer or fizzy drink, think of what makes that nice refreshing hiss... Ah it is that nasty CO2, and considering that the the worlds biggest drinks manufacturer (you know who I mean), boast sales of 350,000,000 cans a year, that equates to a hell of a lot of CO2.....Don't get me wrong... There is too much waste in the world, and re-cycling is very important...Daniel.

 

i believe its the laws which are absurd but the idea of a clean environment is certainly not.

 

Great... That's my point.Thanks.Daniel.

 

As cited, the problem is not so much the environment, but the people who live in it. The so-called "first world" has done a pretty good job of cleaning up the air over the past three decades. Even Los Angleles has good air most of the time. But the government mandated methods of keeping things clean have simply forced manufacturing out of those countries and into nations without such regulations. For example, Americans visiting Bangalor get sick from breathing the air.

Who gets blamed for bad air? The so-called "first world" consumers!

The whole shebang is based on the economic theories of the 1920's of course. It will fall apart in another few decades and we'll all go back to stratified social systems. We'll all be dead in a few decades anyway. Best to just let our children deal with the mess.

 

The green issue is a big one in the UK (not sure about other parts of the world, but I assume it's the same). I am all for it to be honest, and do feel that the UK is lagging behind some of our European counterparts on this.

The wider problem I feel is, that people don't trust the politicians who are telling them to recycle, or even the scientists predicting the apocalypse if we don't take a few beer cans to the recycling bin. There is misinformation, and this breeds uncertainty and idleness. I would like to think that people would do recycling of their own accord just because it's the sensible thing to do, but sadly my hope for some of mankind is lagging that of my appreciation of Tony Blair. People are complex characters, and that is me included!

I do agree with thingmaker3 for pointing out the movement of certain industrialisations from the western world to the developing economies, where there are different laws and regulations on environmental factors.

Dave

 

The green issue is a big one in the UK (not sure about other parts of the world, but I assume it's the same). I am all for it to be honest, and do feel that the UK is lagging behind some of our European counterparts on this.

The wider problem I feel is, that people don't trust the politicians who are telling them to recycle, or even the scientists predicting the apocalypse if we don't take a few beer cans to the recycling bin. There is misinformation, and this breeds uncertainty and idleness. I would like to think that people would do recycling of their own accord just because it's the sensible thing to do, but sadly my hope for some of mankind is lagging that of my appreciation of Tony Blair. People are complex characters, and that is me included!

I do agree with thingmaker3 for pointing out the movement of certain industrialisations from the western world to the developing economies, where there are different laws and regulations on environmental factors.

Dave

I wish that "feeling" you had was a truth that existed over here in USA. I don't know if they broadcast this... but good ol' Al "I created the internet" G. is always preaching about global warming and how we Americans need to cut back our gasoline consumption and watch how much we pollute -- then he goes home in his Hummer, but not before stopping by some new secondary residence he has being built that, in all honesty, is probably waaaay too big for just a family of 3 or 4 to EVER need. But, *I* have to watch myself. It's ok for him to waste gas.

 

Yes it's just the same over here...The politicians get together and talk about global warming, and how they are going to tax us all for having "BIG" cars, and then get in a nice "BIG" car and drive home.I must say that I feel some people go over the top and have a bigger vehicle than they need....I drive a Mini (not the new BMW one), and I only travel about 4 miles each day, so I think I am doing my bit, and it is also tax exempt (1961), so I can spend more of my hard earned money on electronics.Daniel..

 

but good ol' Al "I created the internet" G. is always preaching about global warming and how we Americans need to cut back our gasoline consumption and watch how much we pollute

Didn't ol Al claim that our automobiles are more dangerous than nuclear warheads? NEVER trust a Tennessee politician!


On a related note, I understand there is an argument brewing over bottled water here in the Pacific Northwest. All those bottles seem to be putting a strain on existing recycling facilities. Pretty ironic when one considers how much of that water comes out of Pacific Northwest city taps!

 

Yes it's just the same over here...The politicians get together and talk about global warming, and how they are going to tax us all for having "BIG" cars, and then get in a nice "BIG" car and drive home.I must say that I feel some people go over the top and have a bigger vehicle than they need....I drive a Mini (not the new BMW one), and I only travel about 4 miles each day, so I think I am doing my bit, and it is also tax exempt (1961), so I can spend more of my hard earned money on electronics.Daniel..

Well that's the British political way of dealing with climate change - Tax (in fact under Gordon Brown's chancellorship that has been his answer to everything!). Aside from apathy and a lack of political trust, I think people (generally) in Britain want to recycle and then often not given the facilities to act upon this, through recycling points and bins, or (topically) through regular bin collections. The funny side of the taxation approach is that the taxation often affects those that already recycle - there are fickle and idle people who don't recycle and often the taxation appraoch does not affect them - how ironic. I am going into dangerous territory with this assessment because I am making some generalisations, so will stop there, but it is a perception that many people I know take.

Dave

 

I wish that "feeling" you had was a truth that existed over here in USA. I don't know if they broadcast this... but good ol' Al "I created the internet" G. is always preaching about global warming and how we Americans need to cut back our gasoline consumption and watch how much we pollute -- then he goes home in his Hummer, but not before stopping by some new secondary residence he has being built that, in all honesty, is probably waaaay too big for just a family of 3 or 4 to EVER need. But, *I* have to watch myself. It's ok for him to waste gas.

That political attitude is endemic in the UK. This is what breads the uncertainty and hence apathy.

Didn't ol Al claim that our automobiles are more dangerous than nuclear warheads? NEVER trust a Tennessee politician!


On a related note, I understand there is an argument brewing over bottled water here in the Pacific Northwest. All those bottles seem to be putting a strain on existing recycling facilities. Pretty ironic when one considers how much of that water comes out of Pacific Northwest city taps!

Care to embellish the story thingmaker3? I haven't heard anything like this over here, but for those in the UK it sounds like a classic episode of Only Fools and Horses - Peckham Spring anyone!

Dave

 

I don't follow it very closely, but IIRC there's a hue and cry over the PET bottles themselves ending up in landfills. Also there's concern about transportation of the product (can't be burning gas and polluting the air just for a swig, now cane we?). Bottled water is all the rage here - supposed to be so very much better than tap water. But our local tap water is some of the best in the whole world! Some of the more expensive bottled water comes from the same source that flushes my toilet. Go figure.

 

Ahhhh.Now the government over here are telling us that they may think of taking action against people people if they don't re-cycle... Mmmmmm.............At the same time our waste collection people are telling us that they can provide skips for re-cycling (at a price !!!)... Yehhhh..............At the same time the Council are telling us that we can not keep our 1 locked and tidy skip on our own land, and that it will have to be moved..... (well what did you expect ???)........Daniel.

 

.At the same time our waste collection people are telling us that they can provide skips for re-cycling (at a price !!!)... .

looks like someone is going green (if they convert pounds to dollars)
or
the ppl will certainly go green due to these policies.