Glad I'm not a passenger

WBahn

Joined Mar 31, 2012
32,935
Good. As with almost everything, countermeasures are only effective if they increase the cost to something more than the other side is willing to pay.

Back when the Somali pirates were first becoming so brazen, I felt that the proper response would be for the U.S. to form a coalition with as many other nations as possible and profess the doctrine that any vessel flying the flag of any coalition partner -- or any vessel requesting assistance, regardless of flag -- that was taken by pirates would be retaken by force. If that doctrine was enforced just a few times, you can bet that the pirates would be a lot choosier in their target selection.
 

nsaspook

Joined Aug 27, 2009
16,353
Good. As with almost everything, countermeasures are only effective if they increase the cost to something more than the other side is willing to pay.

Back when the Somali pirates were first becoming so brazen, I felt that the proper response would be for the U.S. to form a coalition with as many other nations as possible and profess the doctrine that any vessel flying the flag of any coalition partner -- or any vessel requesting assistance, regardless of flag -- that was taken by pirates would be retaken by force. If that doctrine was enforced just a few times, you can bet that the pirates would be a lot choosier in their target selection.
I hope we Go Russian (NO MERCY, OVERKILL) on the small Houthi boats if there is a general attack plan to clear the waterway.

During the Vietnam Operation Boat People the pirates preying on those leaving the war zone were given no mercy by us if caught in the act but we had orders not to fire on suspected pirate boats unless they failed to back-down. We sank all of the Vietnamese refugee boats after the people were rescued or if they were already dead from pirates.
https://www.history.navy.mil/conten.../1980-1989/1980-1989-refugees-vietnamese.html
1704142387929.png
Water sprays up as shots are fired from the guided missile destroyer USS Towers (DDG-9) to sink the small boat from which Vietnamese refugees were just rescued.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/arch...efugees/ad8d9a2e-d502-4a98-bd45-e742e7781347/
If Thai and Malaysian forces cannot do the job, the U.S. 7th Fleet should be called in, some Western diplomats have suggested. However most refugee officials appear to feel the fleet's presence would offend both Vietnam and the two countries across the gulf.

However, American long-range reconnaissance planes operating out of the Philippines have begun to provide intelligence on pirate attacks.

Prop-driven P-3 Orions make special detours over the gulf and radio word on boat movements' to the U.S. mission in Bangkok. It was an Orion that first spotted the 36 Vietnamese who were rescued from Kra Island this weekend.
 
Good. As with almost everything, countermeasures are only effective if they increase the cost to something more than the other side is willing to pay.

Back when the Somali pirates were first becoming so brazen, I felt that the proper response would be for the U.S. to form a coalition with as many other nations as possible and profess the doctrine that any vessel flying the flag of any coalition partner -- or any vessel requesting assistance, regardless of flag -- that was taken by pirates would be retaken by force. If that doctrine was enforced just a few times, you can bet that the pirates would be a lot choosier in their target selection.
looking for the doctrine and philosophy behind these things,find it inside this apocalyptic book:
https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/1979866
How originality of money and materialistics has brought govts,medias,politics,science,etc to a great devilish system,
upon the mystics,"Dajjal" literally means who streams lie and disaster and denies the truths every moment /on every side.
science,politics,medias,... for money and materialistics can open the hell's gate to each of the aspects,
you may decorate it with cold war, world war,watchwords and something, or deny it as well.but it's the truth.
and yep...they blame capitalism and owners as the first hand for the corrupted world ,and so on...
 

nsaspook

Joined Aug 27, 2009
16,353
looking for the doctrine and philosophy behind these things,find it inside this apocalyptic book:
https://www.goodreads.com/en/book/show/1979866
How originality of money and materialistics has brought govts,medias,politics,science,etc to a great devilish system,
upon the mystics,"Dajjal" literally means who streams lie and disaster and denies the truths every moment /on every side.
science,politics,medias,... for money and materialistics can open the hell's gate to each of the aspects,
you may decorate it with cold war, world war,watchwords and something, or deny it as well.but it's the truth.
and yep...they blame capitalism and owners as the first hand for the corrupted world ,and so on...
It's not money and materialism IMO, most of it is just, evil (human, not supernatural) being evil because they can get away with it. No mercy for the evil. One the few things I feel good about that period was helping people escape that hell and raining hell on the evildoers.
 
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It's not money and materialism IMO, most of it is just, evil (human, not supernatural) being evil because they can get away with it. No mercy for the evil. One the few things I feel good about that period was helping people escape that hell and raining hell on the evildoers.
I'm not on the position and knowledge to judge this video,
but it could be one of that lies that is decorated with truths.
like many other movies and medias have been spreaded out.
it may just bring my 3rd eye on fire during a dated cold war.
 

nsaspook

Joined Aug 27, 2009
16,353
I'm not on the position and knowledge to judge this video,
but it could be one of that lies that is decorated with truths.
like many other movies and medias have been spreaded out.
it may just bring my 3rd eye on fire during a dated cold war.
You've got the right to believe what you want.

I was there, it's not a lie, so I'm (and all of thousands of seaman on various ships that were there) in a position to judge the truth here. It's been toned down for the public because it was horrible for all. Once you've seen a boat filled with dead woman and children burned to the water line after they were attacked you tend to remember it when you later watch that boat being sunk by USMC Cobra gunships from your ship.

These are the lucky ones.
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USS White Plains
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USS Fox
1704150083381.png
USS BLUE RIDGE
1704149455717.png
USS Ranger
 

WBahn

Joined Mar 31, 2012
32,935
While I was too young to see it first hand -- was only ten when Saigon fell -- I have talked to PLENTY of people that were there and witnessed things from all sides. Plenty of servicemen (and a couple servicewomen), both that I served with years afterwards and that I interacted with completely outside the service. A handful of folks that fought on the other side. And more than a few civilians that were caught in the middle, including ones that escaped, to greater or lesser degrees, in some of those boats. Many of those tales are haunting and many of them, including some of the same ones, are inspiring.
 

Thread Starter

cmartinez

Joined Jan 17, 2007
8,788
IMHO, it is not the political or all of the "isms" ideas out there that drive these horrors, but rather the simple and primitive emotions of greed, envy, resentment and lust of power that are forever latent at the root of all of the human race. Those are the main sources of Evil. It is only when we're taught that each one of us have the same objective value and are worthy of respect and consideration that we can finally come together as a civilization ... albeit an unstable and fragile one.
 

WBahn

Joined Mar 31, 2012
32,935
IMHO, it is not the political or all of the "isms" ideas out there that drive these horrors, but rather the simple and primitive emotions of greed, envy, resentment and lust of power that are forever latent at the root of all of the human race. Those are the main sources of Evil. It is only when we're taught that each one of us have the same objective value and are worthy of respect and consideration that we can finally come together as a civilization ... albeit an unstable and fragile one.
Good luck with that!

I think a huge source of the problem comes down to people that insist on controlling others. They are not content with believing what they believe, the demand that others believe it to, or at least conform to living how they believe people should live. There is fundamentally no solution to this, because the core of a society is people conforming to societal norms of behavior, which means that people are being coerced to live by a set of beliefs whether they believe them or not. But since these beliefs are not objective, there will always be friction regarding what the societal norms should be and to what degree conformance should be enforced, which also means that there will always be those whose ideas of what those norms should be are in conflict with the majority, but they firmly believe that their norms ARE objective and therefore the majority must be forced to conform anyway.
 

Thread Starter

cmartinez

Joined Jan 17, 2007
8,788
Good luck with that!

I think a huge source of the problem comes down to people that insist on controlling others. They are not content with believing what they believe, the demand that others believe it to, or at least conform to living how they believe people should live. There is fundamentally no solution to this, because the core of a society is people conforming to societal norms of behavior, which means that people are being coerced to live by a set of beliefs whether they believe them or not. But since these beliefs are not objective, there will always be friction regarding what the societal norms should be and to what degree conformance should be enforced, which also means that there will always be those whose ideas of what those norms should be are in conflict with the majority, but they firmly believe that their norms ARE objective and therefore the majority must be forced to conform anyway.
yeah ... what you've just said is a pretty good expansion of what I meant with "lust of power"
 
IMHO, it is not the political or all of the "isms" ideas out there that drive these horrors, but rather the simple and primitive emotions of greed, envy, resentment and lust of power that are forever latent at the root of all of the human race. Those are the main sources of Evil. It is only when we're taught that each one of us have the same objective value and are worthy of respect and consideration that we can finally come together as a civilization ... albeit an unstable and fragile one.
Talking about "isms" is talking about definitions,
as an example.definition of a criminal in capitalistic society that is almost built on stiff financial regualtions can be totally different from a society built on religious or devine faiths.
you might be a great scientist/researcher/divine that has infringed the copy-right rules in a capitalistic society, and they would behave you like a murderer or sea pirate and something like. or vice versa it may happen differently in a faith/devine-based territory .so,yes,isms are definitions and origins of many conflicts.
 
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