It is quite important to understand that an adequate scope also needs adequate input cables, to avoid affecting the system that you are examining. In addition, to make accurate measurements with a scope requires a way of having accurate calibration of the amplitudes displayed. And for a whole lot of projects there is no need for a scope.
Certainly a good cope is handy for some applications, but for a lot of things there is no need for it.

 

It is quite important to understand that an adequate scope also needs adequate input cables, to avoid affecting the system that you are examining. In addition, to make accurate measurements with a scope requires a way of having accurate calibration of the amplitudes displayed. And for a whole lot of projects there is no need for a scope.
Certainly a good cope is handy for some applications, but for a lot of things there is no need for it.

And, especially for the hobbyist, there is a wide swath of projects that really benefit from having a scope but that having good cables or calibration isn't a big deal because they only need a rough qualitative picture of what the signal looks like.

 

I want to get back into putting together electronic projects.

I have this equipment.

I could use a lot of help.

Thanks.

View attachment 356593

OK, what project are you planning to do?

 

Of course, and when a scope cost two weeks salary I did the same. But now, you can get a capable little portable LCD storage scope for a couple of hours at minimum wage. It would be a waste of many hours learning such tricks.

I think anyone starting now should start with a multimeter, variable power supply and a cheapo scope, all of which can be had for the price of a dinner out for two (in the US). And I suggest buying the romantic partner some flowers or other gift to make up for the lost date night.

Hi,

Actually, working without a scope teaches you troubleshooting skills you would never learn if you started by using a scope. The more limited the test equipment, the more you have to think about devising experiments that would show what is going wrong (or right).

I am not arguing that you should never get a scope just that you can do a lot without one. I would definitely say buy a multimeter meter first and it does not have to be a super expensive one.
I used a $50 multimeter for years until I got better ones, then a unit that was several hundred dollars. Scopes are definitely nice to have, but they are still limited when it comes to accuracy unless maybe you buy a high-end model. There's no scope out there that can match my bench meter when it comes to making static measurements.

 

Yes you can live without a scope, but without doing things seriously. Soon or later you will need one..
When you need to solder SMT components (through hole ICs are about to definetly disappear), you will need a microscope.

Well my original statement included the phrase, "to start with".
To start a delivery service, you might want to get a small truck or van before you buckle down and buy a big Mack Truck

 

Well my original statement included the phrase, "to start with".
To start a delivery service, you might want to get a small truck or van before you buckle down and buy a big Mack Truck

I didn't tell him to buy a Tek of few k$. Cheap scopes exist.

My first scope costed me 250$. Worth the money for hobbyist and professional projects, but also for experience. The last project I used it for was a SAR (a few years ago, nowadays I am using a new one). No scope no serious projects. You are blind without.

With a microscope I soldered many SMT packages for custom hobbyist PCB projects. It was not one of my first equipment. Also worth the money.

A scope is an investment if you really want to work well and do some serious stuff.
No excuse..

 

I didn't tell him to buy a Tek of few k$. Cheap scopes exist.

The one I quoted is quite adequate for beginning unless getting to VHF!
And only cost just over $100 double beam and portable!

 

Its not very good scope i have one it hard to setup sometimes like the touch screen is not working as should.

 

I didn't tell him to buy a Tek of few k$. Cheap scopes exist.

My first scope costed me 250$. Worth the money for hobbyist and professional projects, but also for experience. The last project I used it for was a SAR (a few years ago, nowadays I am using a new one). No scope no serious projects. You are blind without.

With a microscope I soldered many SMT packages for custom hobbyist PCB projects. It was not one of my first equipment. Also worth the money.

A scope is an investment if you really want to work well and do some serious stuff.
No excuse..

Hello again,

I think you are just overstating this issue. "You are blind without"? There are a lot of people out there building all kinds of stuff without a scope. That doesn't mean never buy one, but sometimes cost is a very significant issue even with a $100 USD scope. I did so many projects without a scope I probably can't count them all. Even when I had a scope I often just didn't need it. The projects ranged from LED alarm clocks, 8 digit frequency counter, controller board from a Z80 and support logic, never needed a scope.

I'll tell you when I did need a scope. When I had to find the pulse patterns for several IR remote controls. I also needed it for advanced troubleshooting when I worked in the industry.

Here's a kicker for ya:
One time myself and an associate got called to Canada to modify a design in a high accuracy digital weight scale. It was for Pfizer where they needed to weigh animal organs related to their research. We brought a long a scope, but held up in customs (USA to Canada customs was a pain). We could not get the scope so we more or less had to work without one. Otherwise we'd have to buy a new one if we could find one up there, and they were expensive way back then.
So that's one time when we had to do very serious work without the advantages of having a scope. I learned to do a lot without a scope so I adapted pretty quickly to that task.

 

I use a logic tool more then a scope

 

I use a logic tool more then a scope

Oh yes, I forgot about that. I used a logic probe too. Very simple to use. Thanks for the reminder.

 

I use a logic tool more then a scope

For years, I used a scope as a logic analyzer. At first, it was because I had never heard of a logic analyzer and, later, it was because I didn't have one. While is sucks only having a two-channel "logic analyzer" (one channel of which often had to be the clock signal), it did force me how to be clever in making measurements and learn how to stitch together different pictures of the situation into a composite whole. Was I ever overjoyed when I finally had access to a mixed-signal scope that had a 16-channel logic analyzer in it.

When I was an undergrad in the physics department, a lot of time was spent figuring out how to get old, worn out equipment to work and then figuring out how to make useful measurements with it. Over in the engineering department (where I took a lot of classes, as well), we had very modern equipment that made many of those same measurements very easy. My experiences in the physics department were far, far more education in large part because of having to struggle with the available equipment because that, in turn, forced us to deal with the underlying fundamentals involved, both in what we were measuring and in how we were going about measuring it.

 

I’ve got a 16 channel 400 MHz logic analyzer it’s really good and not that expensive

 

I’ve got a 16 channel 400 MHz logic analyzer it’s really good and not that expensive

The abilities of "low end" tools has definitely improved enormously in the last three decades. My first mixed-signal scope was an HP 54645D 100 MHz 2-channel plus 16-channel logic analyzer. I paid just over $6k for it, but I bought it to lease it back to my employer, so ended up making a very handsome profit on it over the next two decades -- plus I still have it. That was in 1997.

 

For years, I used a scope as a logic analyzer. At first, it was because I had never heard of a logic analyzer and, later, it was because I didn't have one. While is sucks only having a two-channel "logic analyzer" (one channel of which often had to be the clock signal), it did force me how to be clever in making measurements and learn how to stitch together different pictures of the situation into a composite whole. Was I ever overjoyed when I finally had access to a mixed-signal scope that had a 16-channel logic analyzer in it.

When I was an undergrad in the physics department, a lot of time was spent figuring out how to get old, worn out equipment to work and then figuring out how to make useful measurements with it. Over in the engineering department (where I took a lot of classes, as well), we had very modern equipment that made many of those same measurements very easy. My experiences in the physics department were far, far more education in large part because of having to struggle with the available equipment because that, in turn, forced us to deal with the underlying fundamentals involved, both in what we were measuring and in how we were going about measuring it.

Hi,

It's amazing how clever we become when we have limited equipment to test with.

I did not have use of a storage scope until later in life. I got to use a big one that actually had that phosphor storage mechanism where the phosphor image would somehow stay on the scope screen even after the original waveform had ended.

Going back to 1997 with your equipment reminded me of the 1980's down in Princeton. I almost bought an actual storage scope I think it was maybe $50 and it worked, and new it was worth probably $5000 USD or more. I did not buy it though because it was so dang huge. It was at least the size of two large microwave ovens ... at least. I could just imagine all the circuitry inside that thing. It was probably made in the early 1970's.

 

There is a whole lot that you can do without using a scope. Certainly a scope can be a valuable tool, but so can a decent VOM. So there is a lot that having an adequate understanding can also reveal without a scope. The TS might be better off spending some money on a decent soldering device, and possibly a book to provide more education and understanding.

 

There is a whole lot that you can do without using a scope. Certainly a scope can be a valuable tool, but so can a decent VOM. So there is a lot that having an adequate understanding can also reveal without a scope. The TS might be better off spending some money on a decent soldering device, and possibly a book to provide more education and understanding.

Yeah when first getting started funds are often limited. Not only that, but someone new to electronics may not even understand what a waveform is yet. There is a steeper learning curve. After a while a lot of people do want a scope though, after they start getting deeper into it.

One suggestion I would make to the OP is don't buy a USB scope if you don't have to. They are more trouble than they are worth. I had a USB Scope and the problem is the whole computer becomes part of the circuit under test, unless maybe you buy a more expensive model with galvanic isolation.

Someone I know blew out their USB scope and USB ports trying to measure the voltage on the AC mains line. After that they went with a semi-portable unit (batteries or USB wall wart powered).

 

CERTAINLY it is vital to understand the limits of every tool and instrument that you are trying to use. That includes the input isolation as well. The input common side is often tied to the case "ground" which often is also tied to that third pin safety ground. This will lead to sparks and damage when connecting to mains powered circuits.

 

Back in 94 I got a interview for a job they give us some hand to and an old Simpson meter and had us fix some stuff that would need fixing when the shop master checked are work I was the only one of a 100 that tested and fixed the parts they ask to test. You can do a lot if you know how the circuit works

 

Back in 94 I got a interview for a job they give us some hand to and an old Simpson meter and had us fix some stuff that would need fixing when the shop master checked are work I was the only one of a 100 that tested and fixed the parts they ask to test. You can do a lot if you know how the circuit works

CERTAINLY be80be iis so very correct!!! In repairing, with first DIAGNOSING, circuits or machines, or even organizations, understanding first how it is SUPPOSED to be working is rather vital. Spotting burned or broken parts is handy, but without understanding why an item burned or broke will not effect a long term fix. Indeed, it may lead to a very rapid repeat of the failure. So really, rpair requires more than just being a parts changer.