Four suggested changes [feedback]

Discussion in 'Feedback and Suggestions' started by Raymond Genovese, Jan 30, 2018.

  1. Raymond Genovese

    Thread Starter Member

    Mar 5, 2016
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    I want to submit the following suggestions for improving the Forum Communities at AAC. They are just some thoughts I have had when thinking about what seems like a repetitive pattern in certain areas and with certain long standing members, many of whom, in my view, have made a great deal of SME contributions in relevant areas.

    I don’t claim that the suggestions have more merit than sincerity.

    1. Creation of a Beginner Topic area.

    This creates a specific place for “newbies” to ask On-Topic questions. By collecting them in their own area, they provide an increased comfort level and a friendly atmosphere.

    2. Removal of “Likes” capability in Off-Topic threads.

    On the one hand, the whole idea of “likes” is perplexing. If you truly like a post, why not respond with a post that says as much and explains why? On the other hand, “Likes” are a good way of providing appreciation and validation for a post that is particularly valuable in addressing a problem or issue….in On-Topic threads.

    In Off-Topic threads, “Likes” serve only as a mechanism to enhance division. They are, therefore, provocative in a place (Off-Topic) whose very existence is on shaky grounds with regard to the purpose of the site.

    3. Prohibit Moderators and Administrators from participating in the Off-Topic threads.

    To be clear, by prohibit, I mean, by agreement of the management staff. By not participating, I mean that participation is limited strictly to moderation functions only.

    I realize that there are quite a few very pleasant and non-contentious Off-Topic threads. I also realize that moderators are volunteering their time. But, ostensibly, regular members are on a level playing field. When moderators enter those threads as participants, they are necessarily on a different and distinctly unbalanced playing field, no matter how objective one thinks they are being.

    Off-Topic threads are, by definition, peripheral to the central mission of AAC. As much as I would hate to see some Off-Topic threads go, I know that those topics are covered in other Forums and the unrest that is sometimes caused in the Off-Topics is a clear liability.

    4. Update the TOS in a meaningful manner and do it sooner rather than later.

    This has been discussed in many places for a very long time, but no updates have been made. In this regard, I would only add “make sure that “Mission Statements” are supported by policies that all can truly thrive under”.

    I don’t really feel a need to list areas in desperate need of revision because those areas have been discussed openly and covertly many times.

    The point is: When will it be done?
     
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  2. Aleph(0)

    Member

    Mar 14, 2015
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    Raymond Genovese Sry but I say that's daft! Cuz it can only serve to emphasize dichotomy of staff and other members! So I think shift to proper perception of fora as a library and staff as librarians and fellow MEMBERS (instead of cops/babysitters/referees) is realistic constructive way forward!

    So anyhow I'm sure your suggestion is well intended and I mean no disrespect but I say more hierarchy-consciousness is last thing AAC needso_O!



    BTW I unequivocally like suggestion 1:)
     
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  3. Raymond Genovese

    Thread Starter Member

    Mar 5, 2016
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    I stand by the suggestions I made as well as the right of any other poster to be critical of them.

    While I certainly do not appreciate you referring to any of my suggestions as “daft”, I do understand that one user can find another post to be “daft” and, frankly, I sometimes feel that way myself.

    In this regard, I offer you the following arrangement. If you can make your next six consecutive posts on AAC, with legitimate content, but without using “cuz”, “bcuz”, “I say”, “ppl”, “totally”, “thx” or “sry”, regardless of capitalization, and also without using any emoticons, I will self-ban myself from making any posts on the AAC Forums for 30 days.
     
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  4. MrChips

    Moderator

    Oct 2, 2009
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    Well that is really daft.:rolleyes:
    So we'll see you again at the start of March, you say?:p
    Unless A(0) can't live without you for 30 days and let you off the hook.:D
     
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  5. Aleph(0)

    Member

    Mar 14, 2015
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    Raymond Genovese I say you are either vry thin skinned for a behavioral health professional OR you have vry dry wit:D!

    So ether way I lose challenge which is good cuz I don't want AAC to even temporarily lose anymore valuable members including ppl who I sometimes disagree with:)!

    OBTW _bcuz_ isn't one of my words;)


    Being serious I'm sorry if I really offended you:oops:!
     
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  6. Aleph(0)

    Member

    Mar 14, 2015
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    Guess I'm vry easy 2 get along with 2day:p!
     
  7. Raymond Genovese

    Thread Starter Member

    Mar 5, 2016
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    Being serious, all of your posts (that I have read) offend me - and, remember, you asked. I don't know you from Eve, but what I see is a young person, who works as a Gov. Contractor (from one of your posts). I have been the COR for a number contractors.

    When I read your posts, the language appears to be so childish, and so lazy, I can't even take it seriously. The irony is that you would choose the word "daft". You may, in fact, be extremely bright and have a stellar future, but if you could only express yourself as you have shown me here, I would have a difficult time doing anything but wishing you good luck in another laboratory.

    That is me being serious.

    edited only to fix quote order and buffer effect.
     
    Last edited: Jan 30, 2018
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  8. Raymond Genovese

    Thread Starter Member

    Mar 5, 2016
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    Oh look (*pointing up*), there goes the point.

    How is your post as a moderator helpful? If you think it is so important, you could just delete the post and claim it was for "unneeded sarcasm". Does that ring a bell?

    Can you not figure out that my original post is about this very issue? It has almost nothing to do with the first three suggestions and everything to do with the fourth one, and specifically the practices of some of the moderators. Can you honestly not see that? Do you honestly not understand that it is why we suddenly see much less of so many regular users?

    Please, tell me that you do not see your mission as to be the last man standing. Instead, read the writing on the wall, get together, ask the members for input on a revised TOS to include revisiting policies by moderator and administrative staff with specific regard to equity and respect for long-time contributors (not me) and a reasonable, ethical, and transparent post deletion and censorship policy.
     
  9. MrChips

    Moderator

    Oct 2, 2009
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    @Raymond Genovese, Don't be so daft, pal!
    I responded with reference to your challenge to @Aleph(0) .
     
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  10. Aleph(0)

    Member

    Mar 14, 2015
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    Ramond Genovese if it makes you feel any better it's like 20% generation gap and 80% internet persona;)

    So let me rephrase point from my last post:

    I don't want AAC to even temporarily lose anymore valuable members including ppl who don't like me at all:)!

    Raymond Genovese FWIW I didn't have impression he was posting as a Mod?! But just as a member of this comunity:confused:! So I say your non-fraternization stance is getting the better of you;)!
     
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  11. Aleph(0)

    Member

    Mar 14, 2015
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    Raymond Genovese that's word I always use for like _silly_ I learned it growing up from my mom mum;) (@Hypatia's Protege) who was raised in UK:cool:

    So really! I'm sorry you found it so offensive:confused:! How I've always heard it and used it, it's just light-hearted banter not serious insult:oops:
     
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  12. Hypatia's Protege

    Distinguished Member

    Mar 1, 2015
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    I too favour the above quoted suggestion provided implementation of said scheme includes safeguards actively preclusive of defacto establishment of a 'newbie ghetto'! -- Specifically: participation in said forum must remain wholly voluntary with regard to neither the user's tenure/'post count' nor his/her level of education, technical expertise or experience! Under no circumstances should participants be 'sent packing' to the 'Newbie Forum' on the basis of 'nascence' or inquiries deemed 'too basic' for the mainstream on-topic areas!

    Re: The 'like' feature (as available in off-topic fora and elsewhere): I feel that any 'negatives' (e.g. facilitation of 'mobbing behaviour', etc...) are much more than over-equaled by the 'positives' (i.e. incentivisation of helpfulness/patience/civility, reduction of clutter, enhanced clarity of consensus, etc...)

    I respectfully disagree... Like @Aleph(0), I too view the fora staff as facilitators and members (as opposed to 'commanding officers', 'law enforcement', 'big brother' or what have you) - To this point, in my considered opinion, it's no coincidence that Mods are typically recruited from members being bona fide educators and/or highly active in the 'Homework Fora'...

    As you lay it out above - I too feel such would be highly beneficial to the membership (including the staff) and, indeed, the fora in general!:) -- For all that, I'm bound to say I find your emotionally-charged 'rant' on this point to be as counter-productive as it is unfortunate:(

    With genuine respect
    HP
     
    Last edited: Feb 1, 2018
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  13. philba

    Active Member

    Aug 17, 2017
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    Sigh. I try to stay away from these kind of threads but I think Raymond has a point that seems to be getting lost in the noise - moderation needs to be, well, moderate. For example, there is a recent thread that was finally closed after 5 days for violating T&Cs (that became apparent on day 1) and then, an hour later, a moderator posted on it. I don't know about others but that seems like a "do as I say, not as I do" situation. Perhaps it's an innocuous mistake but it's not the first time. Perceptions matter.

    On the deleted posts point. This is a very jarring thing to me, especially when subsequent posts refer to the contents of the deleted post(s) and there isn't any explicit indication that a post was deleted or why it was deleted. I have a limited amount of time and hate that I've tossed it away on some thread I will never understand.
     
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  14. ericgibbs

    Moderator

    Jan 29, 2010
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    hi philba,
    If your post is referring to the 'Checking kits for faults' Thread.
    There were no deleted posts on that Thread.

    The reason the Thread was left Open, was with the intention that we could convince the TS that the project was a bad idea and should not be built.
    It was obvious that with all the sound advice that was being given to the TS, he was not getting the message.
    So Moderation discussed the Thread and it was decided to close it.

    Surely you must agree that we should try to use our experience and take the time and effort to warn 'students' of the dangers of certain circuitry and not just close his Thread, leaving him in the dark.?

    As the original circuit was not mains isolated, Bertus was good enough to post a final circuit showing a 'safe' alternative.

    Eric
     
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  15. MrChips

    Moderator

    Oct 2, 2009
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    Case in point, rather than shutting down the thread outright, we talked through the safety issue with the TS and offered better alternatives. The TS was able to reach a decision on his own and took the advice seriously and appropriately. There was no heavy handed approach by moderators and hopefully TS learned something from the discussion and feedback received.
     
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  16. philba

    Active Member

    Aug 17, 2017
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    On the deleted posts point, I was not referring to that thread. There have been a number of other threads where that has been done but I don't have specific examples to point to.

    On the color organ thread there was a post after it was closed. Closed but not closed. Stirs cognitive dissonance in my brain. BTW, I'm helping the TS with doing an arduino/LED based version and do support discouraging of dangerous things though closing the thread doesn't really do that. I think the thread itself (including posts by a number of non-moderators, including me) makes a very good case for not using circuits like that and the TS got it.

    I know moderating is hard sometimes and am sure it feels thankless. I do appreciate that you mods are trying to do the right thing.
     
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  17. MrChips

    Moderator

    Oct 2, 2009
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    Thread closed but not closed.

    You may notice that only moderators and other AAC staff can post to a closed thread.
     
  18. philba

    Active Member

    Aug 17, 2017
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    Yes, I have been aware of that for some time time now. Definitely have mixed feelings about that.
     
  19. Aleph(0)

    Member

    Mar 14, 2015
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    So just as general (but IMO definitely on-topic) statement, I say it's vry good that Mods handle safety issues on case-by-case basis instead of just enforcing like _template_! Cuz the severity of almost all safety issues is a function of user's skill level! So I know that can sometimes be hard on new posters (cuz Mods haven't seen enough of their posts to gauge their skill/expertise yet). But I still say it's fairest system! So plz remember alternative is to permanently treat everyone as newbie:eek: So I say huge advantage of human moderated fora is case-by-case approach:)!

    So anyhow I'm just saying to ppl angry abt what their calling _inconsistent_ safety moderation, Plz be careful what you ask for:eek:!

    PS To ppl thinking I'm partial commenter on this issue cuz I'm TS of thread with topic of multi-killowatt HV and xray generating equipment, you're right:)! I have vested interest in site maintaining measured approach abt potentially hazardous subjects as you should too:cool:!
     
    Last edited: Feb 2, 2018
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  20. MrChips

    Moderator

    Oct 2, 2009
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    @Aleph(0) Exactly. I agree with your position. You and HP discussing 10kV PSU and x-rays is one thing. A newbie asking how to build a 10kV PSU is another.
     
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