Find or Make a Motor Controller for the Fisher & Paykel Washing Machine Smart Drive Motor

Discussion in 'General Electronics Chat' started by Carole Yan, Jun 24, 2019.

  1. Carole Yan

    Thread Starter New Member

    Jun 24, 2019
    1
    1
    Hi,

    I'm new to this forum.

    I want to turn a smart drive motor, I salvaged from a Fisher & Paykel washing machine, into an adjustable speed motor for I-don't-know use (maybe a wood lathe?). Would appreciate any information about how I can make or where I can buy one motor controller to achieve this.

    More information about this motor could be found in this page
    https://www.element14.com/community...tor-and-as-a-generator?displayFullThread=true

    It's in the middle of the page. Search with following and please refer to the upload article right below (as pictures)
    "Hope this helps explain why this is a more complex motor than a straight stepper."

    I tried to contact author but seems the email left in the article (contact@energy1000.com.au) is no longer in use.

    Thank you very much!

    Max
     
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  2. mvas

    Active Member

    Jun 19, 2017
    538
    129
    Isn't the Fisher & Paykel motor just a 3 Phase BLDC motor with Hall Sensors for feedback ?
     
    Last edited: Jun 24, 2019
  3. MaxHeadRoom

    Expert

    Jul 18, 2013
    18,794
    5,849
    The Fisher Paykel does not use commutation sensors.
    I believe it is a 3ph controller rather than BLDC.
    Max.
     
  4. mvas

    Active Member

    Jun 19, 2017
    538
    129
    See this photo ...
    https://photobucket.com/gallery/user/JustDoo-it/media/bWVkaWFJZDo3NDAxNDU5MQ==/?ref=
    The plastic clip with 2 holes, located at 11:00 o'clock, contains the Hall Senors for Speed and Position feedback.
    The Gray + Blue + Red connectors = the 3 phase BLDC connector
    A Fisher Paykel motor is a 3 Phase BLDC motor.

    What type of controller you use to spin the BLDC motor is up to you.
    Example: Triple 1/2 H-Bridge BLDC Driver ...
    http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/drv8313.pdf
    The TS needs to verify voltage and amperage rating of the BLDC motor vs the BLDC Driver Chip
     
  5. MaxHeadRoom

    Expert

    Jul 18, 2013
    18,794
    5,849
    This does not seem like a ideal motor for a Lathe, one of the EX treadmill DC motors and controller would be a little better.
    For a BLDC motor controller build there is the Picmicro MC LV BLDC development board, that also has the schematics and software.
    There is also someone who started reverse-engineering a F.P. board https://sharealikelicence.wordpress.com/2012/09/25/fisher-and-paykel-smart-drive-schematic/
    You need to know the pole count of the motor, For smaller motors, I short the three winding terminals and spin the motor one revolution and count the 'bumps'.
    Max.
     
  6. max.wwwang

    New Member

    Jun 24, 2019
    21
    1
    it comes with 3 hall sensors.
     
  7. max.wwwang

    New Member

    Jun 24, 2019
    21
    1
    It's me who posted this. Thanks for all the information.

    I thought about getting the schematics of the F&P motor controller module but without luck. Reverse engineering would be too daunting to me. But the schematics from your post is useful. Will post some photos when I have time.
     
  8. MisterBill2

    Distinguished Member

    Jan 23, 2018
    3,672
    722
    If you could recover the controller from that washer machine you could use it, without that you will need to make a replacement controller. You can run a brushless motor without the sensors if you have a circuit that will deliver the drive without them. Starts may be less graceful but it certainly can work if the full motor torque output is not being used.
     
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  9. shortbus

    Expert

    Sep 30, 2009
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  10. max.wwwang

    New Member

    Jun 24, 2019
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  11. MisterBill2

    Distinguished Member

    Jan 23, 2018
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    That first document certainly provides an explanation starting at the very beginning. Very interesting.
     
  12. dendad

    Distinguished Member

    Feb 20, 2016
    2,921
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    What voltage is your Fisher and Paykel motor? Is is a 120V or 240V one?
    There are a few sites on modifying these motors for different voltages, mostly for generators. But you could apply the same to run them on lower voltage and use a BLDC motor driver.
    http://www.rippleephex.com.au/energy2.html shows the rewiring.

    Converting the coils into 7 groups of 6, then, if you have a 120V motor, 120x1.4= 168V (the DC of the rectified mains) so 168/7=24V
    And ..
    https://www.ebay.com.au/itm/DC20-50...600375&hash=item4d8fd52923:g:1VYAAOSwdMBa4olB
    has a 500W driver for 20 to 50VDC.

    I have used the Fisher and Paykel motors to test a 24V BLDC motor driver I designed. These are the 240V motors, not rewired at all. They run ok, but not driving any load, Just to test the boards.
     
    Last edited: Jul 1, 2019
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  13. max.wwwang

    New Member

    Jun 24, 2019
    21
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    Thanks for the information. I'm not very sure about the voltage of the motor itself. What I'm sure is the mains voltage is 230V AC.

    I know it's safer to make it lower voltage. This definitely makes sense. My preference however is the minimum change to the motor itself. Basically I wanted to have the motor the same configuration, driven by a driver the similar way as the mashing machine, only with my own driver/controller, because I would not need the washing/rinse cycles mode but only adjustable speed continuous running.

    If conversion is needed, I can do that. I don't see it a straightforward task to modify the existing controller (currently working well). Maybe I can check the components on the F&P board and figure our what main components to use.
     
  14. MisterBill2

    Distinguished Member

    Jan 23, 2018
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    If you have the controller intended for the motor and it is working that makes the task quite different. That means that all that is needed is to discover the point in the circuit where the speed signal goes to the driver portion. If we had been aware of that originally it would have been very useful. The original impression was that you only had the motor.
     
  15. max.wwwang

    New Member

    Jun 24, 2019
    21
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    Sorry for not being clear. I have the whole modules from the washing machine. Reverse engineering and making the circuit suit my needs seems not easy to me.
     
  16. debe

    AAC Fanatic!

    Sep 21, 2010
    1,139
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    BLDC no hall.1.jpg BLDC. HALL.1.jpg These are relativly cheap on Ebay & they do need to be mounted on a heat sink, they are ok up to 36V. I used the one not using Hall sensors to drive a BLDC fridge compressor.
     
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  17. dendad

    Distinguished Member

    Feb 20, 2016
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    Be careful of the F&P drive board.It is running on rectified mains, so around 340VDC.
    Also, I think the FETs are water cooled sometimes in the cycle.
    I have thought to have a go at working out how to drive the board. I reckon it is serial commands to the driver from the control.
    Just out of interest, I found this.
    https://www.element14.com/community...tor-and-as-a-generator?displayFullThread=true
    It has pictures of the Silicon Chip mag article.
     
  18. max.wwwang

    New Member

    Jun 24, 2019
    21
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    Thanks for the safety warning. Haha -- the link you posted is the one I posted at the very top. :)
     
  19. max.wwwang

    New Member

    Jun 24, 2019
    21
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    Som photos of the PCB's and components.
    20190622_121659.jpg 20190622_204654.jpg 20190622_205622.jpg 20190622_214002.jpg 20190622_214028.jpg 20190622_214128.jpg
     
  20. max.wwwang

    New Member

    Jun 24, 2019
    21
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    I also made a short video showing it working.
     
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