EUV might be possible ?

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nsaspook

Joined Aug 27, 2009
16,251
What is it and why is small so important?

We didn't miss out because of EUV.

The Intel failure is one more of management than pure engineering capabilities, buying processing equipment, building fabs or working through yield and errata issues.

It's much like Boeing. They prioritized business strategies and financial performance over engineering excellence. Intel jumped in and out of all kinds of markets that were related but not central to the core business, wasting the billions they made from the core business.

Example: https://finance.yahoo.com/news/why-intel-apos-smartphone-strategy-120000811.html
Instead of giving up, Intel tried to buy its way back into the smartphone market by subsidizing original equipment manufacturers (OEMs) that used Atom chips. However, it spent about $10 billion on subsidies over three years to capture about 1% of the market. When Intel cut those subsidies, OEMs predictably switched back over to ARM chips.
 
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MisterBill2

Joined Jan 23, 2018
27,186
In engineering, just like in flying and mountain climbing, there certainly does exist the possibility of an irreversible error. By that term, I mean a decision that can not be undone. In flying it means the result is fast ground contact (an impact), in mountain climbing, it means a fall. In engineering it means scrap it and start over.
In business it means walk away from the loss and find new investors. The real world is not like a video game, where when you get killed you just hit reset.
 

schmitt trigger

Joined Jul 12, 2010
2,027
I am with NSAspook on this one. Short sighted management practices, which have crippled the once World-leading US technology.

And of those toxic business practices, none is worse than stock buybacks. Instead of investing in R&D, new factories or processes, or your workforce, the company’s cash is used to artificially prop up the stock price. Works like a charm for a few years, then the company wakes up from their drunken stupor only to find out that their competitors are ahead, far ahead of them. And gaining additional distance each day.
 

MisterBill2

Joined Jan 23, 2018
27,186
The sad news is that if you read the law, you see that the primary responsibility of the whole board of directors (of a publicly traded company) is to the share holders. And what do the largest shareholders want? Short term profits is what. And that seldom is in agreement with what it takes to work toward long term success. And if you think that is bad for business, just take a look at what it will do for health care systems. My local hospital used to be a "non-profit" until it was merged with the "very much FOR PROFIT Corewell health system" Serious damage to the quality, and success, of care.
Does this sound like a bitter complain?? Certainly it is. YES, off the topic, I know. So no more on the topic.
 
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Until the MBA's and Wall Street suffer consequences for their short-term greed as priority #1, we're just going to continue watching corporations eat themselves and spin their death spiral, all the while a nation diminishes.

Technology requires decades, it's not an instant "wave the magic wand" to make. Right now, the Trump admin is reviewing the U.S. CHIPS and Science Act and there's going to be delays/changes doling out the money. Policy shift. The last thing we need is instability and chaos when TSMC, Samsung are in the middle of building fabs, although I wonder if they would ever truly bring top tech to the US. Many problems with TSMC and Samsung getting new fabs built Texas or Arizona.
Asian governments have been subsidizing their electronics and semiconductor industry for many decades. They are in it for the long run.

Look at Foxconn Wisconsin to see how that (didn't) work out even with $3B-$4.8B (in taxpayer-funded subsidies over 15 years, largest ever) offered. So much for doing LCD panel fab or assembly. It was all politically driven theatre.
Analog Devices shut down Linear Tech Milpitas fab and outsourced it all. Looks great on the books. Did anyone say a peep about that great loss?
 

MisterBill2

Joined Jan 23, 2018
27,186
The fact appears to be that there is no idea or invention so very wonderful that it can not be made to fail by a string of wrong decisions.
In a similar manner, there is seldom a product created that can not be damaged by enough user actions in direct ignoring the specific instructed usage.
This tends to validate that famous statement:"You Can't Fix (deleted)".
 

LowQCab

Joined Nov 6, 2012
5,101
The World is being "cleaned-up",
it's only very concerning to the Gamblers and the Criminals.

The above is trivial stuff,
but get ready to put your Seat-Belt on, the really heavy-poop is coming.
It will be way too slow for me, but for lots of "normies", it will be very scary.
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prairiemystic

Joined Jun 5, 2018
419
High tech is extremely fragile. You don't just move it around the globe or expect to develop it in a few months.
Wall Street, politicians, and other dumb executives look at it this way though. As if it's a commodity- your basic can of soup.

ASML high-NA EUV machine(s) went to Intel Oregon first in Jan. 2024, just over a year ago.
$380M machine. It's running for the past week at 1/4 production 30,000 wafers. Seems good for high volume and density IC's.
Not that Intel knows what to make with them lol or has the 18A process running solid.
Even with this cutting edge lithography machine, you need everything around it as well - like the IC fab process, good decisions on what IC's to make, marketing lining up customers, and to try compete with TSMC etc.
Past year Intel stock pretty bad, -225% so the clean up is basically an axe. Normies won't notice, they can still buy their electronics.
 
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