But mercury is BAD you see. It's BAD BAD BAD.

It must be removed form all workplaces! So now the doctor uses a $35 plastic toy BPM machine from the pharmacy, made in China for about $3 by someone who doesn't care if it works or not.

Years ago my doc had a proper wall mounted mercury tube one. Now they just GUESS what your BP is.

 

About the blood pressure machines...The, "tube of mercury on the wall" is the gold standard. It is physically impossible for it to be wrong. That machine is the standard by which all others are measured. That is the machine that was the original and sets the standard. That machine is why your blood pressure is declared in "millimeters of mercury".

If there is any error, it is in the person operating it.

Of course it can be wrong. If nothing else, the markings could be incorrect.

 

Of course it can be wrong. If nothing else, the markings could be incorrect.

Now we have nothing that can be trusted for blood pressure measurements!

 

Of course it can be wrong. If nothing else, the markings could be incorrect.

But going from memory, the look of those "proper" mercury gauges was that they would have cost many hundreds of dollars, and be made by a very reputable firm that makes specialty medical equipment with a lot of care and certified calibration of the measurements.

If I'm paying an expensive specialist consultant, I expect him/her to have a better piece of test equipment than the China junk appliance that anyone can buy in a pharmacy or supermarket.

Imagine if you brought in an expensive 3-phase specialist to diagnose a big high-power industrial machine, and he pulled out a little $5 Harbour Freight multimeter, did some iffy looking tests and then just googled the problem. I would not be happy.

Unfortunately that analogy is close to 100% accurate for describing a doctor.

 

But going from memory, the look of those "proper" mercury gauges was that they would have cost many hundreds of dollars, and be made by a very reputable firm that makes specialty medical equipment with a lot of care and certified calibration of the measurements.

So? Does that somehow make it "physically impossible" for them to be wrong? That's the claim I was responding to.

 

It is physically impossible for mercury to be the wrong weight per vertical millimeter on the surface of this planet. If you want to research every possible mistake that can happen at any stage of any process, you're going to spend a lot of time being miserable about things you can do nothing about.

Do you go to your doctors office with a certified meter stick and measure the height of the mercury column, use a level to make sure the wall that the meter is attached to is vertical, and then listen to the measurements with a second stethoscope, or do you just nit pick every statement you see on the internet?

 

It is physically impossible for mercury to be the wrong weight per vertical millimeter on the surface of this planet. If you want to research every possible mistake that can happen at any stage of any process, you're going to spend a lot of time being miserable about things you can do nothing about.

Do you go to your doctors office with a certified meter stick and measure the height of the mercury column, use a level to make sure the wall that the meter is attached to is vertical, and then listen to the measurements with a second stethoscope, or do you just nit pick every statement you see on the internet?

The weight of mercury per vertical millimeter varies depending on where you are on the surface of this planet. It not only varies with latitude due to distance from the axis of rotation, but it varies with location even at the same latitude due to the local makeup of the earth itself.

If you don't want a claim that something is "physically impossible" to be challenged, then don't make it unless that something is actually physically impossible.

 

So? Does that somehow make it "physically impossible" for them to be wrong? That's the claim I was responding to.

No of course not. I accept that any test equipment can be fallible.

But my point was that the old "proper" BP test with mercury tube would have been expensive, and been made very accurate with the company's reputation at stake.

If the doctor these days uses a $35 China brand BPM, which company's reputation is at stake? They make a different brand each month, and just get the crap devices on pharmacy shelves under whatever name they like.

That is a very different deal than an expensive mercury setup designed by a specialist company just for doctors use and hospitals!

And #12 made a very good point about mercury's height against gravity being VERY reliable. That's an entire order of magnitude more reliable than a cheap China made device with a crappy uncalibrated sensor and cheesy little AAA batteries that might be half dead (or have leaked and caused corrosion and device failure, like the one I recently pulled apart!).

 

No of course not. I accept that any test equipment can be fallible.

But my point was that the old "proper" BP test with mercury tube would have been expensive, and been made very accurate with the company's reputation at stake.

And I have little problem with that point. Of course, another thing to remember is that using any mercury-based instrument in this day and age is getting harder and harder -- and more expensive -- to justify.

Fortunately, every doctor I have had used a manual cuff. They had a medical-quality pressure gage on them that was certified. The only time I've had digital or automatic BP cuffs used in a medical setting was in the hospital for remote or periodic monitoring. But even then, they periodically took measurements with a manual cuff.

 

Just because the instrument is more accurate/precise, doesn't mean the person using it will get an any more truthful reading from it.

At least with 'el cheapo' meter, you are given a discrete number. There's no confusing 24.6 C, for example. However, an inexperienced/lazy/tired/badluck user can take a $10k mercury instrument and introduce a 5% parallax error. If the 'el cheapo' meter has a error margin of 5%, which is worse?

 

And I have little problem with that point. Of course, another thing to remember is that using any mercury-based instrument in this day and age is getting harder and harder -- and more expensive -- to justify.
...

Agreed. However a glass tube filled with coloured alcohol/water will do the same job, it just moves through more inches for the same pressure.

I suspect the real reason for switching to crappy electronic BPMs is for cost, and as Sparky49 said another good reason is they make it easy or "brainless" to use; wrap cuff, press "go" button, read numbers on display.

And regarding very little skill... That BPM matches other modern doctor M.O.s like googling every question a patient asks. It's disturbing.

 

Agreed. However a glass tube filled with coloured alcohol/water will do the same job, it just moves through more inches for the same pressure.

And while an advantage of using alcohol/water is better than an order of magnitude improvement in resolution (since the specific gravity of mercury is about 13.5), it isn't very practical for the range of measurements that a BP cuff has to accommodate, which typically go to 300 mmHg which is more than 13 ft of water.

 

That's fine, climbing up and down that ladder will keep the doctor alert and might stop his chronic yawning.

 

"And not to mention everytime I ask the doc a question, he just googles it right there in front of me! That means his level of skill is about the same as mine? I can google my own medical questions thank you... Grrr. "




Same here, I always look up all my meds on the Net.

The damn side-effects, would scare a normal Human.

And, the prognoses.

 

It has now been three months since I had the gastric bypass surgery and, overall, I am very pleased with the progress to date.

• I've lost 68 lb (333 lb -> 265 lb).
• I've been off insulin for two months.
• I've only been taking on diabetic med (metformin) for over a month.
• My blood sugars are in the 90 to 110 mg/dl range most of the time.
• My last HbA1c was 6.7%, which is the lowest it's ever been measured at.
• My cholesterol and blood pressure meds have been reduced by over 50%.
• My last blood workup looked outstanding.
• I'm walking 3+ miles a day (sometimes 4.5 miles).
• I'm wearing 48" pants (down from 56" before the surgery).

This is not to say that there aren't challenges. The two biggest are my blood pressure and my rat poison. My blood pressure is up and down with marginal highs (135/90 range) and pretty low lows (80/60 range) that are making it difficult to find a med level that is appropriate. This is not entirely unexpected and as my weight loss slows it should improve. The hope is still that I will be completely off blood pressure and cholesterol, as well as diabetic, meds in a couple more months. My rat poison levels tend to go up fairly quickly as the dose becomes too much as I lose weight. This is also not unexpected but it means I have to go in for rat poison checks and dose adjustments pretty frequently (sometimes weekly instead of monthly) which is a royal pain.

As with weight loss efforts before, I tend to go in a fairly predictable cycle. I will lose weight at about the expected rate (based on caloric intake and activity level) for a week or so and then plateau where my weight doesn't change much (or may even increase five pounds or so) for a period of two to three weeks. Then I will "whoosh" and lose the balance of the expected weight in a few days to a week. Then the cycle starts over. In my latest cycle I went three weeks and gained four pounds. Then I dropped 22 lb in seven days.

Thus far my cumulative weight loss is right on track with the incremental model I put together in the days leading up to the surgery. That model, which assumes all loss is due to fat burning, projected me as being at 269 lb this morning and I was at 265 lb. If I were burning mostly protein then my loss would be much higher; as it is, the difference is in the noise.

My model has me at 215 lb at the 6 month mark, which would be a total loss of 118 lb since the surgery. The average (yes, "average") for someone my size is 90 lb to 105 lb at that point, and thus far I have been doing somewhat above average so it seems that my model's predictions that far out are still pretty reasonable. Whether they will prove to be accurate in reality is something else. We'll see.

 

That's outstanding Wbahn! I'm very happy to hear your success, it is encouraging. Glad we will have you around here for many more years than we would have, had you not taken the initiative to mind your health.

My own weight loss seems to plateued permanently. I went from 205 a few months ago to 169 (+/-5) lbs and that is where I have stayed for the past 6 weeks or so. Pant size went from uncomfortably tight in a 36 to needing a belt with a 32. Average BP is down from145/95 to 125/85. Cholesterol down 70 points. My doctor is thrilled.

If I don't lose any more in the coming month, I am going to proceed to phase two of my plan; the bulking phase. I was hoping to get down around 150 before bulking, but whatever. I am dieting to improve my health but also my physique.

I have always been a "fat skinny guy" - that means, my structure is that of a slender person; my shoulders are narrow, arms and legs small, and long neck, but my belly portrudes and is the first place to accumulate fat and the last place to lose fat. I really look goofy when I gain weight. Even after boot camp, the most fit I have ever been, I weighed 145 and had a fledgling 6-pack, but my belly still stuck out and looked like I had a paunch. But there was no fat to constitute a paunch; that's just how I'm built. So rather than try to get super slim and have the flat belly that I know to be impossible, I want to get as slim as is reasonable, and then build up my chest and upper body muscles to where they look proportionally sized to my belly. If I don't get down to 150 before bulking, I will have more bulking to do, but if I wait around for 150 and it never comes, then I'll never achieve my goal. So I've set a tripwire of one month.

 

Well done to you both. Strantor hit the kettlebells rather than bulking or you'll end up stiff and dysfunctional, unable to reach for the last resistor in the pack. Having lost loads of weight you will both be fitter and stronger than you think. Functional exercise rules the day.

 

Sounds like you're doing pretty good, strantor. I've known people that were trying to lose weight and plateaued for six months or more before it suddenly dropped out of the blue (classic whoosh). So who knows. But as long as you focus on the fitness, you can't really go too far wrong.

 

Thanks for the update people! It's great to hear people getting results and getting closer to their goals.

I'll sound off too. It's been approx 6 weeks since I last did my measurements and bodyfat caliper readings, and in 6 weeks I've lost another 1.5 kg (3.3 pounds) and my bodyfat is down another 6.6%.

The look of my body lately is that my fat loss is slowing down and I might be nearing the end of my fat loss using the current "slowly slowly" system of slight reduction in calories and slightly higher activity levels.

Part of the problem is the weather, it's getting colder here and close to the middle of winter now and the body's instinct is to rug up on the lounge and snack.

If my fat loss stalls I will have to start "exercising".

...Strantor hit the kettlebells rather than bulking or you'll end up stiff and dysfunctional, unable to reach for the last resistor in the pack.

Sorry to disagree but take it from an expert that is total bunkum. The fastest and best way to put on a lot of muscle mass is large compound expercises, 5-8 rep range.

And it brings no guarantee of getting stiff and inflexible unless the person does things wrong, like totally failing to stretch.

Maybe we have different definitions of bulking but it sounds like you are making a blanket statement that adding any significant muscle mass makes someone "dysfunctional". The result is the opposite, pretty much any sport or activity benefits from the person having more muscle mass and more strength. Except maybe those immaciated marathon runners.

 

My long reply disappeared so en bref:

Do more and you'll be better.

Bulking is mass and massive. I agree that if you do stuff right its all good. See Worlds Strongest for a bunch of unvbelievably big and podgy and functional gods.

Normal people make mistakes, get lazy etc.

Kettlebells are an all round exercise that push the body into the fat burning zone, make you squat, turn etc while controlling weight. Pumping iron isolates muscles so you need to do more exercises to get a full body workout. None of the exercises are a full body workout (maybe snatches and cleans are but that's not for beginners so much)

Gym machines isolate muscles AND stop instability. Start with these then get off them is my advice. Its not how you use your body so why train like it?