Proposition 13 (limits the rate of increase of real estate taxes) is one of the most prominent use of the initiative process.

And it's also the most patently unfair law on the books.
You can have identical houses side-by-side and one owner's property taxes can be much higher than the other, simply because one of them moved and the other didn't.
Since when is it far to base your taxes on whether you've moved or not?

 

Since when is it far to base your taxes on whether you've moved or not?

Since when is it fair to tax me based upon the over-inflated price paid by my neighbors?

 

Since when is it fair to tax me based upon the over-inflated price paid by my neighbors?

It's not.
But the only fair property tax is one based upon the value of the property.
If the property taxes are too high, then they should be reduced for all property owners, not just ones that haven't moved.

 

But the only fair property tax is one based upon the value of the property.

But the "value" of the property is the price which a current buyer is willing to pay -- not what my property is worth to me or what I paid for it in the past.

 

People say that Russia interfered with the US election to try and sway the vote but how can this be? At the end of the day, individual people go into a booth and vote, no one sits in the booth and forces their hand.

How can you affect an election?

Did you get the recent (last night) interview with James Comey over there?
Max.

 

But the "value" of the property is the price which a current buyer is willing to pay -- not what my property is worth to me or what I paid for it in the past.

No.
The value of the property is what it's worth if you sell it now, not what you paid for it 50 years ago.

 

No.
The value of the property is what it's worth if you sell it now, not what you paid for it 50 years ago.

No. The assessed value, i.e. that which the local government uses to asses taxes, is market dependent. Laws vary across jurisdictions. In Florida, the assessed value is set based on purchase price, and can only rise up to 3% per year:

Florida Save Our Homes Law

 

Did you get the recent (last night) interview with James Comey over there?
Max.

Comey, "possibly", "I think it's possible. I don't know." Looks like he really nailed down the facts in that interview. A total waste of electromagnetic energy.

 

The assessed value

We weren't talking about the assessed value, we were talking about the value of the property.

 

We weren't talking about the assessed value, we were talking about the value of the property.

An assessed value is a value (one of many) of the property.

Edit: how the heck are properties taxed if not on their assessed value? You don't wait until you sell the property before you pay the taxes.

 

An assessed value is a value (one of many) of the property.

Edit: how the heck are properties taxed if not on their assessed value? You don't wait until you sell the property before you pay the taxes.

Fine.
But the accessed value should be related to the value of the property should it be sold, not to some artificial value as determined by some arbitrary limit in the increased assessment.
If the proper taxes need to limited, then the same limit should apply to everyone, not just those who haven't moved.
How is that not fair?

 

If the proper taxes need to limited, then the same limit should apply to everyone, not just those who haven't moved.

In either case, home ownership is equivalent to renting from the government until such time as you can no longer afford the taxes. That moment comes sooner if rate hikes are not limited for existing owners (the new owners take current value into account as part of their pre-closing due diligence).

 

In either case, home ownership is equivalent to renting from the government until such time as you can no longer afford the taxes. That moment comes sooner if rate hikes are not limited for existing owners (the new owners take current value into account as part of their pre-closing due diligence).

Well then we'll just have to continue to disagree on what's fair in property taxation.

 

Well then we'll just have to continue to disagree on what's fair in property taxation.

Nothing wrong with polite disagreement!

 

Since when is it far to base your taxes on whether you've moved or not?

Fair has nothing to do tax policy, let’s get that out of the way right off.

But taxing new owners at much higher rates is commonplace. Part of the thinking is that the new owners didn’t pay for the school or road like established owners. But frankly it’s more likely they are forced to pay more just because they can be.

 

Thought this thread was about electrical interference. I guess I am just conditioned to see those kinds of things. And there are some who claim that the Russians hacked (this is complete BS though). But here is something you may be missing. Hillary won the popular vote, but not the electoral collage. She did not get support in the crucial states. Just in case you are not familiar with the electoral collage system, it's winner take all for states and counties. Each states have a certain ammount of delagates, and you need to get the most delagates. So you could get 51% of the vote in 51% of the counties and get 51% of the electoral votes and win. You only need the right 20% to win (but usually it's around 40-49 when they win without popular vote)

 

Thought this thread was about electrical interference. I guess I am just conditioned to see those kinds of things. And there are some who claim that the Russians hacked (this is complete BS though). But here is something you may be missing. Hillary won the popular vote, but not the electoral collage. She did not get support in the crucial states. Just in case you are not familiar with the electoral collage system, it's winner take all for states and counties. Each states have a certain ammount of delagates, and you need to get the most delagates. So you could get 51% of the vote in 51% of the counties and get 51% of the electoral votes and win. You only need the right 20% to win (but usually it's around 40-49 when they win without popular vote)

We all understand that and it's been said before in this thread. US presidential elections are like FM modulation. It's not the overall amplitude that matters, it's the deviations or movements in ranges over space and time that matter to generate the total strong signal not simply a large number in one place. How many times did the loser visit Wisconsin during the general election? Zip, Zilch Nada. Did Russians tell one political party not to concentrate in tipping-point states like Wisconsin, Michigan and Pennsylvania. ? No.

I would call the election a classic rope-a-dope with a over-confident opponent that had lost before to an unknown called Obama years before in a primary.

You can blame an ever changing list of characters like Russia, WikiLeaks, James Comey, "The Basket of American deplorables of racists, sexists, homophobes and xenophobes " and the bigotry of middle America but in the end the working-class voters that mattered said, No Thanks.

 

This video may be considered as a violation of AAC policy, so view it before it gets deleted.

Listen to what he says at 1:18. I don't believe he says he personally voted illegally, but he implies that illegal immigrants may have been voting in elections in Orange County.

 

An illegal victim.

 

I would call the election a classic rope-a-dope with a over-confident opponent that had lost before to an unknown called Obama years before in a primary.

I feel the single biggest factor was ironically the mainstream media. They were so over-the-top in their one-sided coverage and confidence that they couldn't see the noses on their own faces. The echo chamber caused them to ignore the voting populace. The campaign fed off that and failed to fight the right fight. It was probably hopeless anyway, but we'll never know.