Hey!

After 30 years of panel building, this is a new one for me.

A client I have had since the 90's asked me to build a panel with remote access via the internet.

He has no land line to the site.

I did my homework and quoted it last year. I got the job a few weeks ago and have begun ordering parts.

I am using a BXR PLC (BX-BM1E-M-D) from Automation Direct. I have ordered it with an Ethernet port.

I am using a Cmore 15" touch panel (EA9-T15CL-R) from Automation Direct, again with an Ethernet port.

I have coming in today a Advantech cellular modem (BB-SL30200110-X). It is set up for Verizon (my clients preference). It has one Ethernet port.

So, I need to tie there together.

The touch panel has a communications package in it. You can access it via the web and the software onboard will make it look like you are looking at the screen. This is why I choose this unit.

The BXR I was told works well with the Cmore panel. I choose it for this reason and also because it has e-mail capabilities (the HMI panel also does but this gives me two options).

So, each device has a single Ethernet port. I need the panel to talk with the PLC (and vise versa), I need the HMI to talk to the modem and I need the PLC to talk to the modem (to send e-mails).

I have read several articles and am still confused!

I think all I need is a dumb switch but I am just not sure ... do I need a router instead?

Just a side note .... I know the are a lot "better" PLC's and HMI's out there but I am only turning on and off 12 water pumps, monitoring them if they shut down and sending a daily total of water flow (two flow meters with 4-20 mA output are installed onsite) via e-mail. The PLC and Cmore include free software. For a one time only build and limited budget (I am a one man shop), this was in budget for me and my client.

I have built panels for other clients (about 10 years ago) but I worked as a contractor using their software and both already had a standard PLC (in one case Alan Bradley and in the other GE Fanuc). I have never tried using and HMI.

Thanks ...... Mike

 

All you need is a switch, IF your devices are configured properly. Are you making Internet connections through the cellular modem? If so, each device needs the IP address of the modem configured as the network (Ethernet) connection on the device. In this case, the cellular modem functions as your router.

You don’t need a router for an internal network. Devices talk to each other directly by knowing the IP address of the paired device. That’s how you can transfer files between two PCs with just an Ethernet cable.

 

Hello,

You’ll need a switch with enough ports to support the number of wired ethernet devices. Check the port speed supported on the switch to be sure it can support the speed of the devices. They usually can but there are some oddball devices. Also, to help remote troubleshooting, I would choose a “managed” switch. They are usually more expensive but worth it for post installation support.

The modem is your router....but be sure to study the modems firewall configuration information carefully. You’ll need to set that up if you intend to remotely connect to internal LAN devices and want to do so securely. And I presume you do...

eT

 

Awesome!

I was thinking a switch but got confused the more I read.

Lucky for me, security is not really a concern. It someone breaks the password login, the most they can do is turn on or off pumps. Even if they were all turned on or all turned off would not cause any real issues (other then the site clean up would take a bit longer ... oil spill clean up site)..

Advantech said they would give me 6 months of technical support and walk me through the settings so I can get up and running.

The modem does support VPN if I need to add security to it ... I thought this was want I would need.

What would I do with a "managed" switch that I could not do in the modem/router?

Thanks .... Mike

 

Awesome!

I was thinking a switch but got confused the more I read.

Lucky for me, security is not really a concern. It someone breaks the password login, the most they can do is turn on or off pumps. Even if they were all turned on or all turned off would not cause any real issues (other then the site clean up would take a bit longer ... oil spill clean up site)..

Advantech said they would give me 6 months of technical support and walk me through the settings so I can get up and running.

The modem does support VPN if I need to add security to it ... I thought this was want I would need.

What would I do with a "managed" switch that I could not do in the modem/router?

Thanks .... Mike

Security is not a concern
I haven’t heard that very often...

Anyway,
In summary, a managed switch allows you to logon to the switch and view it’s settings, ports, manage traffic and perform connecting diagnostics, just naming a few.

eT

 

Awesome!

I was thinking a switch but got confused the more I read.

Lucky for me, security is not really a concern. It someone breaks the password login, the most they can do is turn on or off pumps. Even if they were all turned on or all turned off would not cause any real issues (other then the site clean up would take a bit longer ... oil spill clean up site)..

Advantech said they would give me 6 months of technical support and walk me through the settings so I can get up and running.

The modem does support VPN if I need to add security to it ... I thought this was want I would need.

What would I do with a "managed" switch that I could not do in the modem/router?

Thanks .... Mike

How many wired devices do you need to connect? You’ve mentioned several. The modem has only one available port. So you’re going to need a switch to connect all of your devices together.

When eetech00 said that the modem is your router, it’s routing IP traffic from your network to the cell network.

You still need a switch to connect everything together. You have a panel, a modem and the PLC at a minimum. That’s three ports. So a four port switch will satisfy your connections with maybe one spare. And I’d use that port to manage the device (unless the one you get has a dedicated management port).

Eetech00 is correct. A managed switch allows you to customize your device connections. Is the speed of the PLC interface the same as the panel? Modem? With a managed switch you can communicate between devices of different speeds. How about the duplex setting of all the devices? The switch will compensate for these difference and to do so, you’ll have to “manage” the switch. What if you want to change out a device. Will it have the same properties on its interface? Not a problem with a managed switch.

In s commercial web site, we never used hubs or unmanaged switches. It would simply be too expensive in terms of maintenance, scalability and operation. I agree with eetech00.

 

Awesome!

Yes, only a panel, and a PLC ... and as you said, one spare point so I can connect a laptop to the PLC and Panel.

I will look up a managed switch!

Is this what you are talking about:

https://www.amazon.com/NETGEAR-Giga...08727&sr=8-3&keywords=ethernet+managed+switch

Or is there a switch I should be looking at?

I know it sounds odd but first you would need to know the IP address to find the modem ... then log into the unit ... I just don't know why anyone would want to hack into this. It is stand alone ... like I said, really just monitoring pumps and reporting the flow once a day.

As I said, I came set up a VPN if I need to. From what I read, it looks like that should give me good security ... am I right?

Thanks so much again!!!!!!

Mike

 

That switch looks ok.

And no, it doesn’t sound odd. In fact, you’re likely to have to manually configure EACH device with a static IP address. Then, each connection between two devices will need to have the other’s IP.

In a more robust network, you would have a DHCP server and a DNS server. That’s overkill for what you have, but please recognize that you’ll have to use static IP addresses and configure each device to use them.

 

I knew I would need one static IP but two?

I thought the static IP is applied to the modem (since I will get it from Verizon .. and the SIM card).

I thought I only needed it to "call" the modem.

Why would I need two?

Will it make a difference that I am only going to communicate with the panel?

The PLC will only be sending out e-mails (I won't be calling into it) so why would it need a static IP?

I really appreciate all the info you are giving me!

This is really out of my realm but as a one person shop, you learn to never turn down work (well if you want to pay the mortgage and put food on the table).

Thanks so much again!

Mike

 

Any IP connection is two-way. Even if it looks to you as if it’s uni-directional. Like sending OUT email. There’s a lot of communication required for that

Hence you need an IP address on both ends. And since all of your devices will be communicating or connecting to at least one other, ALL devices need their own IP.

 

Got it.

When I "call" (connect via a web browser), I was under the assumption that I would put in the static IP assigned to me by Verizon.

This gets me to my "location". It was explained to me that the Static IP ($500 from Verizon) was the equivalent of a phone number for a cell phone.

Now, once there, are the IP's you are talking about ones that I would make up and assign to each device?

Or do I need a Verizon assigned static IP to get to the modem and then another two static IP's assigned by Verizon to get to either of the devices (panel and plc)?

Man have I got a lot to learn!

And you are talking to a guy who does not even have smart phone! One of my hobbies is restoring rotary dial phones. My cell is an old flip phone!

Thanks once again!

Mike

 

Got it.

When I "call" (connect via a web browser), I was under the assumption that I would put in the static IP assigned to me by Verizon.

This gets me to my "location". It was explained to me that the Static IP ($500 from Verizon) was the equivalent of a phone number for a cell phone.

That's correct. The modem is assigned one static address from Verizon. "Static" just means its a fixed IP address that never changes. This is the IP address the modem uses to communicate to/from the internet.

Now, once there, are the IP's you are talking about ones that I would make up and assign to each device?

Or do I need a Verizon assigned static IP to get to the modem and then another two static IP's assigned by Verizon to get to either of the devices (panel and plc)?

Verizon assigns the modem a static (public) IP address. "Public" means it is an address that IS ROUTEABLE across the internet.

The devices ON YOUR CUSTOMERS NETWORK need "Private" IP addresses assigned to each them so they can communicate with the modem. "Private" just means the IP address IS NOT ROUTEABLE across the internet. The devices use the modem to communicate to/from the internet by using the modems public address, so you'll need to assign each device a unique IP private address along with a subnet mask, gateway IP address, and DNS server IP. If you want, you can use the modems DHCP capability to automatically assign the IP information to each network device. Its seems like this is overkill for this small number of devices but its much easier than manually configuring each device.

Note:
Static IP's are expensive because it reduces the ISP's assigned pool of available addresses so they don't like to give them up. I would check with them to see if a static IP is really necessary. Usually the IP is assigned by the ISP via DHCP but its always the same address anyway (they use this for tracking purposes) unless you ask to have it changed. Anyway, its worth asking..

Man have I got a lot to learn!

Yes you do...but you gotta start somewhere...

eT

 

You don't know how very much I appreciate this!

My entire life has been "leaning on the fly".

Just FYI ... here is a link to a small control panel I built last year (not, e-stop is wrong ... needs yellow ring) : https://www.facebook.com/pg/VermontCountryWorkshop/photos/?tab=album&album_id=433087233721468

It is a very simple one. Last year I did another to control a radon blower, another to monitor radiation (client designed and sent me all the part ... I just packaged it) and other with pneumatic valves with timers.

I also took jobs soldering amp connectors on wires, welding up a cracked backhoe arm and rewiring a tractor ... like I said, what ever pays the bills.

My wife was paralyzed from the shoulders down when she was 12 in a diving accident. I work out of the house so I can earn a living as well as do her care every 4 hours. We just took 5 years building an accessible house. I have a pad poured and with some luck I will build the workshop this summer.

I really do appreciate all your help and advice !!!!!!!!!!!!

If any of you guys (or girls) are ever in VT, look me up, I owe you lunch!

Mike

 

Eetech00 makes an important point regarding the DHCP service provided by your modem. I missed that your modem has a DHCP server in my first read of the datasheet.

I also noted that your modem appears to support wireless. If all of your devices have WiFi capability, you won’t need a switch. And configuring the network parameters can be done in DHCP in the modem. No IP , no mask, no gateway, no DNS settings on the PLC or panel devices.

I just want to clarify one point. On your devices, you need a PRIVATE IP address. Using DHCP on your router, it doesn’t have to be a static private address. But you can manually assign one and all the other network connections if you want.

The scarcity of IP addresses aren’t usually a concern for private addresses. It is static PUBLIC addresses, assigned by your ISP, which are scarce. And you often don’t need a static public IP address. The ISP will take care of routing your traffic for you.

Static public IP addresses come with a premium cost and there are affordable services that provide a pseudo public IP address that is routable. They are called dynamic DNS services. I used one such servic to control a machine from any public access point. It was much cheaper than getting a static public IP address.

Glad to have helped! Good luck.

 

Awesome!

This all makes sense ... you can teach an old dog new tricks!

Unfortunately, none of the devices come with WiFi. In fact, you must order them with either an RS-232, RS-485 or an Ethernet connection.

After doing some reading and talking with the tech guys selling me the PLC and HMI panel, it seems that an Ethernet connection was definitely the way to go.

The modem just came it. The PLC and panel will be here next week.

The panel should be a straight forward build. I want to start playing the the communications ASAP ... I am thinking this will be my only real stumbling block.

Thanks so much again!!!!!!!!!

Mike