I currently have a Type 1 Surge Protection Device installed in the meter panel on the side of my house. There is another breaker panel right next to the meter panel and this second panel has breakers for the AC units, Pool Equipment, Sprinkler Timer, and Outside Landscape Light outlet. As it is currently installed, I understand that the device will protect everything. The device's green light is no longer lit which indicates it is no longer functioning. I have to replace the device and I'm considering going with a Type 2 device with user replaceable modules to make for easy replacement next time.

Question:
I have two more breaker panels in the garage that contain all of the breakers for the house. Ideally, I would like to be able to protect everything, including the items connected to the breaker panel outside(ie: pool equipment etc.). If I put a new Type 2 device inside the garage at the first slot in the first of the two breaker panels in the garage, will that protect the items connected to the outside breaker panel - pool equipment? (I'm assuming the answer is 'no', but figured I should double check)

I would like to be able to easily see the status lights on the new Type 2 surge protection device so that I know if a module has gone bad. Could the new Type 2 device be connected in the first slot of the panel that is located next to the meter and then I drill a hole through the concrete block wall and mount the Type 2 device inside the garage on the other side of that wall? So the distance would be 18 inches to 2ft depending on the thickness of the concrete block wall and routing into the breaker box. That way I can see the lights every day since the cars are parked in the garage. Is that distance ok, or do I need to locate the new Type 2 outside right next to the current panel next to the meter that houses the pool equipment breakers etc.?

Thanks in advance for your insight

 

The type 2 SPD will need to be protected by a breaker. It is best to keep the wires as short as possible and to avoid sharp bends. The longer the wires and the more bends, the less effective the SPD. The best place is as close to the main service breaker as possible at the service and in the same panel, or ahead of all feeder breakers. Do you have 2 poles available for a breaker in the meter panel?

 

The pic attached was the panel next to the meter. The panel that houses the meter itself does not have any locations for breakers. It looks like the only spot to insert a breaker - if I want to use a Type 2 SPD - would be to replace some of the breakers at the bottom left of the panel with the smaller style to make room? If that is the case, would the SPD be protecting the inside Breaker Panels that are being fed from the 200A breaker feed at the top of this panel(it comes directly from the meter)?

(my preference in going with a Type 2 is that I could change it out when it dies instead of having to hire an electrician as I would with a Type 1)

 

It looks like the only spot to insert a breaker - if I want to use a Type 2 SPD - would be to replace some of the breakers at the bottom left of the panel with the smaller style to make room? If that is the case, would the SPD be protecting the inside Breaker Panels that are being fed from the 200A breaker feed at the top of this panel(it comes directly from the meter)?

(my preference in going with a Type 2 is that I could change it out when it dies instead of having to hire an electrician as I would with a Type 1)

Yes, installing a tandem two pole breaker (if available) in order to free up two spaces is your only option for a type 2 in that panel. The amount of protection that SPD provides to downstream panels is mostly limited by how far away they are. If these other panels are more than 30’ I would recommend installing additional type 2s in those. Your original installation, using a type 1 in the meter socket was probably the best protection but I understand your reasons for wanting to change this.

 

to Answer your original question- yes, you could install the actual device in your garage with the breaker for it in that first panel. Just remember that the effectiveness is limited by distance and bends.

 

Thanks Jackwest! So, it would not matter that the downstream panels are connected at the top of this panel connected to the source by 2 large wires and the SPD would not be on that leg, it would be in the breakers at the bottom of this panel, which have a separate direct run to the source at the meter?

Thanks again

 

The protection for the feeder that comes from the top breaker will not be as good because of the extra wire and bends in that wire . Essentially trace the wire...from the top breaker, back to the main lugs at the meter (several pretty sharp bends), back to the bottom half of the first panel (a few more bends and more wire). Weird as it seems distance and bends are the two biggest factors. It has to do with inductance. Also keep the conductors as close to each other as possible all the way from the SPD to the breaker and make sure the ground connection is good.

 

Ok, so I'm thinking of 3 options:
#1: Install IG2240-OMS (contains replaceable modules + it's own breaker switch) - as Type 1 - downside is spec is not as good as IG2280:
L-L VPR 1200 - MCOV 300 - In(kA) 10 - SCCR(kA) 10
L-N VPR 800 - MCOV 150 - In(kA) 10 - SCCR(kA) 10
L-G VPR 1500 - MCOV 300 - In(kA) 10 - SCCR(kA) 10
N-G VPR 700 - MCOV 150 - In(kA) 10 - SCCR(kA) 10

#2: Install IG2280-OM (w/user replaceable modules - does not have a switch) - as Type 2 + cheaper IG1240RC3s as Type 2 in Garage Panels
upside is spec on IG2280 is better, but it is not installed as Type 1, it would have to be on that bottom breaker.
L-L VPR 1200 - MCOV 300 - In(kA) 20 - SCCR(kA) 100
L-N VPR 800 - MCOV 150 - In(kA) 20 - SCCR(kA) 100
L-G VPR 1500 - MCOV 300 - In(kA) 20 - SCCR(kA) 100
N-G VPR 700 - MCOV 150 - In(kA) 20 - SCCR(kA) 100

#3: Install IG1240RC3 as Type 2 on that bottom breaker + an IG1240RC3 at each of the two breaker panels in the garage. Thinking that I would just have to flip the 200A service disconnects and then replace the IG1240RC3 if they die.

(I had a IG1240RC3 as Type 1, but it died after 3.5 yrs. Spec is:
L-L VPR 1200 - MCOV 300 - In(kA) 20 - SCCR(kA) 50
L-N VPR 700 - MCOV 150 - In(kA) 20 - SCCR(kA) 50
L-G VPR 1200 - MCOV 300 - In(kA) 20 - SCCR(kA) 50
N-G VPR 700 - MCOV 150 - In(kA) 20 - SCCR(kA) 50

What would you do?

 

What brand are your panels (loadcenters)? SCCR 100 is very high. Probably a waste of money at your location. The ones with 50 SCCR are more than enough. For longevity MCOVs that are higher will last longer but also usually cost more. Are you in a high lightning area?

 

The panels are Siemens. I'm in east coast south Florida. The first setup puts the SPD closest to the source, less wires distance - but it is only 10 In(kA), the third setup gives 20 In(kA), but it is more wire length between the source and the initial SPD, and then a lot more wire between the source and the SPDs located in the garage panels...so not sure which setup makes more sense?

 

Consider putting a Siemens QSA2020SPD in each of the garage panels. Try to put them in the breaker spaces as close to the main lugs as possible. I have not used the Siemens brand but other manufacturers make a similar product and they work well in residential applications. You can get them at Amazon for about $85ea. The outside panel is a little harder. You could use the same thing if you could free up two spaces by going to a quad double pole for the AC breakers. Not sure if you can get the quad in the amps you need. Called a quad as they are two double poles in one double pole space. Your original setup was probably the best way to go as far as covering everything with one SPD but it doesn’t hurt anything to have them sprinkled around in each panel. Sorry if this wasn’t as much help as you were looking for but this is about the extent of my experience.

 

Thanks Jackwest! I will definitely consider using the QSA2020SPD at the garage panels. I found that Siemens makes a Quad Double 40/40
Q24040CT2 - so I could use that for 2 AC units and then put a QSA2020SPD on the outside panel too. I'm thinking it would be even easier to install if I simply connect the ground and not worry about moving load wires: Do I have to connect any load to the QSA2020SPD?

I guess the only issue is if it makes a difference whether the surge is stopped at the initial source vs letting it get all of the way to the garage panels?

 

You do not have to connect a circuit to the breaker part of the Siemens device. You can leave it as a spare. In Industrial applications we usually protect at the service and again at every panel if those panels are very much removed from the service, say more than 50 or so feet. In general they are cascaded like that and more are better but of course the costs go up. As I mentioned earlier your initial installation with the type 1 at the meter was a good way to go but has the drawback of poor serviceability. Here the meter sockets are sealed by the utility and you cannot wire devices in them. You will be OK with your new proposed installation. Remember- no sharp bends and keep wire from SPD short.

 

Thanks again jackwest!