Differences between BD139/BD139G and BD140/BD140G in simulation. Is real?

Thread Starter

DaniKowa

Joined Jul 1, 2021
68
Good morning everyone,

I created and simulated a current buffer circuit made up of pairs of BD139 and BD140. This circuit does not increase the voltage but adds current. I have noticed that by replacing these transistors with the newer "G" versions ie BD139G and BD140G I have an increase in THD distortion from 0.15% to 2%. To reduce this distortion percentage I have to modify the resistances on the collector. Therefore it would seem that the replacement of these transistors with the "G" versions is not direct but requires the modifications of the above. I enclose the spice data used in the various transistors as they are inserted in the simulator.

BD139
+ (
+ IS = 4.815E-14
+ NF = 0.9897
+ ISE = 1.389E-14
+ NE = 1.6
+ BF = 124.2
+ IKF = 1.6
+ VAF = 222
+ NR = 0.9895
+ ISC = 1.295E-13
+ NC = 1.183
+ BR = 13.26
+ IKR = 0.29
+ VAR = 81.4
+ RB = 0.5
+ IRB = 1E-06
+ RBM = 0.5
+ RE = 0.165
+ RC = 0.096
+ XTB = 0
+ EG = 1.11
+ XTI = 3
+ CJE = 1.243E-10
+ VJE = 0.7313
+ MJE = 0.3476
+ TF = 6.478E-10
+ XTF = 29
+ VTF = 2.648
+ ITF = 3.35
+ PTF = 0
+ CJC = 3.04E-11
+ VJC = 0.5642
+ MJC = 0.4371
+ TR = 1E-32
+ CJS = 0
+ VJS = 0.75
+ MJS = 0.333
+ FC = 0.9359 )
BD139G
+IS=1e-09 BF=222.664 NF=0.85 VAF=36.4079
+IKF=0.166126 ISE=5.03418e-09 NE=1.45313 BR=1.35467
+NR=1.33751 VAR=142.931 IKR=1.66126 ISC=5.02557e-09
+NC=3.10227 RB=26.9143 IRB=0.1 RBM=0.1
+RE=0.000472454 RC=1.04109 XTB=0.727762 XTI=1.04311
+EG=1.05 CJE=1e-11 VJE=0.75 MJE=0.33
+TF=1e-09 XTF=1 VTF=10 ITF=0.01
+CJC=1e-11 VJC=0.75 MJC=0.33 XCJC=0.9
+FC=0.5 CJS=0 VJS=0.75 MJS=0.5
+TR=1e-07 PTF=0 KF=0 AF=1
BD140
+ (
+ IS=7.401E-14
+ NF=0.9938
+ ISE=4.104E-16
+ NE=1.054
+ BF=336.5
+ IKF=0.1689
+ VAF=22.47
+ NR=0.9913
+ ISC=1.290E-14
+ NC=1.100
+ BR=13.91
+ IKR=9.888E-2
+ VAR=30.00
+ RB=0.500
+ IRB=1E-06
+ RBM=0.500
+ RE=0.208
+ RC=5.526E-02
+ XTB=0
+ EG=1.11
+ XTI=3
+ CJE=1.066E-10
+ VJE=0.6900
+ MJE=0.3676
+ TF=2.578E-10
+ XTF=13.56
+ VTF=2.366
+ ITF=1.3040
+ PTF=0
+ CJC=5.234E-11
+ VJC=0.6431
+ MJC=0.4436
+ XCJC=0.440
+ TR=1E-25
+ CJS=0
+ VJS=0.75
+ MJS=0.333
+ FC=0.990 )
BD140G
+IS=1e-09 BF=650.842 NF=0.85 VAF=10
+IKF=0.0950125 ISE=1e-08 NE=1.54571 BR=56.177
+NR=1.5 VAR=2.11267 IKR=0.950125 ISC=1e-08
+NC=3.58527 RB=41.7566 IRB=0.1 RBM=0.108893
+RE=0.000347052 RC=1.32566 XTB=19.5239 XTI=1
+EG=1.05 CJE=1e-11 VJE=0.75 MJE=0.33
+TF=1e-09 XTF=1 VTF=10 ITF=0.01
+CJC=1e-11 VJC=0.75 MJC=0.33 XCJC=0.9
+FC=0.5 CJS=0 VJS=0.75 MJS=0.5
+TR=1e-07 PTF=0 KF=0 AF=1
So the question is: If in a real circuit I replace the 139/140 burned with the "G" versions, are these directly replaceable without other modifications or is there really this difference that also requires the modification of the collector resistors or other ?. Do you have experiences on this? Thanks
 

sparky 1

Joined Nov 3, 2018
653
The ebay BD beta are all different but with perseverance and testing a matcher can be found.
The labels and marketing like ebay parts have'nt been as accurate as doing sorting by beta first.
Unfortuneatly the data sheet values and the tested values can vary. I have sorted several thousand BD's
and found 15 or 20 close matched pairs.
 
Last edited:

crutschow

Joined Mar 14, 2008
28,580
Ideally the circuit should be designed so that it is relatively insensitive to changes in the transistor parameters.
Post your circuit for suggestions on that.
 

Bordodynov

Joined May 20, 2015
2,954
Your two models with the letter G are very bad. If you test them, you will see that the voltage values Basa-Emitter are very low. Check the models (test them) before you use them in your calculations.
 

Audioguru again

Joined Oct 21, 2019
4,129
I agree that G stands for Garbage. They have a very wide range of beta.
So if you need matched ones then buy BD139-10 or BD139-16 ones that are matched by the factory if you buy real ones, not fake or defective ones from ebay.
 

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Thread Starter

DaniKowa

Joined Jul 1, 2021
68
Thank you for answer me,
this confirm the differences in simulations. I've no problem to use 139/140 not G but the drawing is new and i've had try G version because i understood is the one in production instead the non G are end of life. Regarding the BD139-10 or BD139-16 the circuit is composed by coupling 139 and 140.Here the image of schematic (also if used different PNP/NPN stage but the wiring is the same).
 

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