Hello

I am trying to create a 16 bit pic but can't find any website that let me buy a custom ic dip or smd format for low quantities (1-5 max)

I apreciate it if you answer

 

Hello

I am trying to create a 16 bit pic but can't find any website that let me buy a custom ic dip or smd format for low quantities (1-5 max)

I apreciate it if you answer

What exactly do you mean by 'create'?
16-bit PIC24 chips can still be found in singles.
https://www.mouser.de/c/semiconduct...cu/?q=16-bit controller&m=Microchip&instock=y

 

Fergeddaboudit! It's not going to happen. Your best bet is to learn VHDL, or Verilog and program an FPGA to implement the processor you want. AFAIK that is the most likely alternative. Any other pathway will involve a large NRE (Non-Recurring Engineering) charge and a per unit cost in those quantities that will make your head spin. I'd be surprised if you could get any fab to respond to your query.

At one time you could get an NRE charge as low as $250,000 with a commitment to buy between 5000 to 10,000 chips at $50.00 each, but that was a long time ago.

 

Hello

I am trying to create a 16 bit pic but can't find any website that let me buy a custom ic dip or smd format for low quantities (1-5 max)

I apreciate it if you answer

I can’t even imagine what you mean by this.

Do you want to design your own microcontroller to make 5 of them? That would be nuts.

Or do you just mean a standard PIC processor pre-programmed with your code? But that makes no sense either, you can program them yourself with a $50 investment.

Bob

 

What is the design application?

 

What exactly do you mean by 'create'?
16-bit PIC24 chips can still be found in singles.
https://www.mouser.de/c/semiconductors/embedded-processors-controllers/microcontrollers-mcu/16-bit-microcontrollers-mcu/?q=16-bit controller&m=Microchip&instock=y

i am just for educational purposes trying to make a 16 bit µC like a big arduino of some kind and make an own basic programing languange

Fergeddaboudit! It's not going to happen. Your best bet is to learn VHDL, or Verilog and program an FPGA to implement the processor you want. AFAIK that is the most likely alternative. Any other pathway will involve a large NRE (Non-Recurring Engineering) charge and a per unit cost in those quantities that will make your head spin. I'd be surprised if you could get any fab to respond to your query.

At one time you could get an NRE charge as low as $250,000 with a commitment to buy between 5000 to 10,000 chips at $50.00 each, but that was a long time ago.

250k?! thats a lot of money

I can’t even imagine what you mean by this.

Do you want to design your own microcontroller to make 5 of them? That would be nuts.

Or do you just mean a standard PIC processor pre-programmed with your code? But that makes no sense either, you can program them yourself with a $50 investment.

Bob

yes i am trying to create my own custom computer like an bigger arduino o rasbarry pi sort of thing

What is the design application?

Educational purpuses

 

I think we many not be communication well.
There may be some confusion between a custom IC and a custom computer like a Arduino.
Some of us have made custom ICs but it is big money.
Many of us have made custom computers and it is not bad, but you need experience.

i am trying to create my own custom computer like an bigger arduino o rasbarry pi sort of thing

I have seen Arduino "kits" where all the parts come in a box and you need to solder them on the PCB. Not really a "make custom" but......it is a make.
Is this for you to teach? or is this for your education?

 

Educational purpuses

I understand. For that purpose, you want an FPGA (Field Programmable Gate Array) with enough resources to implement a processor. In order to implement a processor in an FPGA you are going to need to learn one of two high level Hardware Description Languages (HDL). The current choices available with FPGA development tools are VHDL, and Verilog. You can find numerous books and web resources on each of these languages to use in conjunction with the documentation from the FPGA vendor. It is even possible that you can find open source implementations of current processors you may be familiar with.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/VHDL
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verilog

 

i am just for educational purposes trying to make a 16 bit µC like a big arduino of some kind and make an own basic programing languange


250k?! thats a lot of money


yes i am trying to create my own custom computer like an bigger arduino o rasbarry pi sort of thing


Educational purpuses

Aim a lot lower.
Most of us have designed a simple processor in school for training.
A TTL design: https://github.com/dangrie158/SAP-1

Here is an FPGA example: http://simplecpudesign.com/simple_cpu_v1/index.html

 

You went through this same dream sequence a few times on this site.
This was from last July.

TITLE: Course-16-or-8-bit-cpu

Hello
I am searching for a free online course about cpu's but more the old part of it because for educational purposes i want to desing and make a 16 bit (or 8 bit) cpu but i dont know everything already so i want a good course that covers the main stuff of a cpu (ram, alu, registers...) But also video output (vga) and audio output (3 to idk voices and all basic waveforms) and any kind of keyboard input (usb or ps/2) like a commodore 64 so i can program it.

Your help is much appreciated.

and this one from June...
https://forum.allaboutcircuits.com/threads/cpu-design-software.180213/post-1645448

Part of learning is getting a reference of knowing how much you don't know. And knowing what kind of a project is a one-person project vs a team vs a corporation vs ...

also, being able to estimate what is within a financial reality vs the available budget.

 

I think we many not be communication well.
There may be some confusion between a custom IC and a custom computer like a Arduino.
Some of us have made custom ICs but it is big money.
Many of us have made custom computers and it is not bad, but you need experience.

I have seen Arduino "kits" where all the parts come in a box and you need to solder them on the PCB. Not really a "make custom" but......it is a make.
Is this for you to teach? or is this for your education?

My education

 

You went through this same dream sequence a few times on this site.
This was from last July.

TITLE: Course-16-or-8-bit-cpu


and this one from June...
https://forum.allaboutcircuits.com/threads/cpu-design-software.180213/post-1645448

Part of learning is getting a reference of knowing how much you don't know. And knowing what kind of a project is a one-person project vs a team vs a corporation vs ...

also, being able to estimate what is within a financial reality vs the available budget.

Yeah i know i think i just love cpu's i will try and do something on a breadboard then

 

Aim a lot lower.
Most of us have designed a simple processor in school for training.
A TTL design: https://github.com/dangrie158/SAP-1

Here is an FPGA example: http://simplecpudesign.com/simple_cpu_v1/index.html

I looked into fpga before but didnt understand it really

Aim a lot lower.
Most of us have designed a simple processor in school for training.
A TTL design: https://github.com/dangrie158/SAP-1

Here is an FPGA example: http://simplecpudesign.com/simple_cpu_v1/index.html

I didn't realy think about fpga bc i dont realy understand it and i think i still got the same problem then bc i can't buy 1 piece of a custom ic and bc it's for educational purposes i dont need 10000 ic's

 

I looked into fpga before but didnt understand it really

I didn't realy think about fpga bc i dont realy understand it and i think i still got the same problem then bc i can't buy 1 piece of a custom ic and bc it's for educational purposes i dont need 10000 ic's

The cool thing about an FPGA is that you can buy one of them and re program it any number of times. It is not like OTP (One Time Programmable) parts where you program them once and then have to throw them away when you want to make a change.

 

Yeah i know i think i just love cpu's i will try and do something on a breadboard then

You don't have to revert to breadboard but you might want to give up on doping silicon and focus on logic gates on PCBs.
https://www.bigmessowires.com/category/bmow1/

 

The cool thing about an FPGA is that you can buy one of them and re program it any number of times. It is not like OTP (One Time Programmable) parts where you program them once and then have to throw them away when you want to make a change.

Ow i didn't know that thx a lot

 

You don't have to revert to breadboard but you might want to give up on doping silicon and focus on logic gates on PCBs.
https://www.bigmessowires.com/category/bmow1/

Yeah i could try that

 

Here is a half-baked idea that has been kicking around in my head for a while:

Make 32-bit computer from functional blocks implemented on 8-bit microcontrollers.

For example, you might implement an 8-bit ALU slice, and use 4 of them to implement a 32-bit ALU.

Then have other blocks for memory controller, an instruction pipeline, etc. The architecture would be totally different than the micros it would run on and would have lots of RAM.

It would be interesting to see what kind of speed you could get.

Bob

 

Here is a half-baked idea that has been kicking around in my head for a while:

Make 32-bit computer from functional blocks implemented on 8-bit microcontrollers.

For example, you might implement an 8-bit ALU slice, and use 4 of them to implement a 32-bit ALU.

Then have other blocks for memory controller, an instruction pipeline, etc. The architecture would be totally different than the micros it would run on and would have lots of RAM.

It would be interesting to see what kind of speed you could get.

Bob

It would be slow as hell.

 

Here is a half-baked idea that has been kicking around in my head for a while:

Make 32-bit computer from functional blocks implemented on 8-bit microcontrollers.

For example, you might implement an 8-bit ALU slice, and use 4 of them to implement a 32-bit ALU.

Then have other blocks for memory controller, an instruction pipeline, etc. The architecture would be totally different than the micros it would run on and would have lots of RAM.

It would be interesting to see what kind of speed you could get.

Bob

You just described hyper-threading. Most Intel commands do not need all 64-bits in a core most of the time. So, a processor can be split into two 32-bit "threads" two give two virtual cores.
Here is a primer...
https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/hyper-threading-intel-definition,5746.html

And, since it is very efficient use of execution cycles, it doesn't slow anything down and this is not true...

It would be slow as hell.