SteveB yeah that pretty much says it all. It would be "illegal" for him to provide a moral system of payment.

Likewise it would be "illegal" for a TV repairer or car mechanic etc to keep charging you for half-assed attempts that didn't fix the problem and keep making you come back and pay all over again.

Maybe one of those industries is rife with corruption? I mean in how many other industries would we be prepared to keep paying someone for failing repeatedly?

 

Blood is something we all have in common,I have qiuzed the blood services

about the amount of information that can be received from the blood. There

are many test that could be done if you were willing to pay for,your doctor

will only order test that the insurance will pay for,I have paid for more test

using cash. I only got a few extra because at some point the lab says that

the blood would have to go to special labs that cost thousands.Have much

information are we misssing not getting more test. If you got a complete work

up of your blood every 5 years to check for changes in your system it would

tell you more about your health as you age.

 

Dang the lack of scientific knowledge is astounding.

No not all chemical processes are reversible. In a closed system (which we aren't operating in) thermodynamics prevents it.

Even in a open system many processes are irreversible. For example, water erosion in a ravine. There is no process to reverse the erosion and set the system back to exactly how it was before the erosion. You can use a shovel to repile the soil, even to the point where it looks exactly like it did before. But that isn't the same as reversing the process since no matter how "exactly alike" you think the system is it isn't. You can't get the same grains of soil back in the same place. Entropy has risen and information has been lost. There is no way to recover information once it is lost.

Magnetism as a cure. Ya, right. Any number of things will damage DNA. Just because a process damages DNA doesn't mean that same process can be used to repair it. I can fire a cannon and destroy a car. That doesn't mean there is any way to use the cannon to repair the car.

 

Hmmm, you might want to tone that down in the future. AAC is a no flame zone, you may disagree but do not make it personal. I know most of the posters have a firm background in science, I don't know you.

Most of this thread is speculative, it is true. If you really read what was said, that was assumed. DNA, for example, exists in great quantity in humans. If it is damaged in minor quantity the patient is probably dead, as in radiation poisoning. Not all DNA is damaged at once, it is a percentage.

Of course, we can read and write DNA from scratch. Lifeforms have been created from DNA written by a computer using a bacteria whose genome has been completely mapped. With life, things can be created from very small samples, we are not machines. Nanotech has similar possibilities.

Regeneration is not here, quite. Certain organs, such as the bladder and urethra tubes can be made in a lab. Other organs are beyond us, but it is entirely possible that could change quickly. There is a lot of scientific research on the subject.

Thermodynamics has rules, but you are misapplying them as they apply to lifeforms, which is kinda funny. Usually we get the overunity and perpetual motion crowd trying to ignore them entirely.

 

@ jimmy101

Maybe you should try not to be so reluctant towards other people's ideas.

Robert Goddard was humiliated for his idea of a rocket propulsion system.

 

SteveB yeah that pretty much says it all. It would be "illegal" for him to provide a moral system of payment.

He does provide a moral system of payment. The morality is not system dependent, but people dependent. Any system can be abused and any system can be used fairly. My chiropractor charges me $30 per visit. He does not deal with any medical insurance companies because they hassle him and restrict him. Typical co-pays for insurance are $25-30 anyway so the patient loses nothing, and he takes the loss rather than deal with the hassle. So I get a treatment, without guarantee of success, for $30. That is the deal we have made. If I come right back and say the adjustment did not take, he will treat me again for free. If I need more work after a good adjustment, then I pay $30 more. I can easily see the benefits he provides me and if he did not get good results and provide me value for my money, I would stop seeing him. He is always honest about what he can do and what he can not do. He will recommend doctors or physical therapists for anything that in not in his wheelhouse. Anything that he feels he can treat effectively he does provide treatment for, and is usually successful.

I could say similar things about my traditional doctors, such as my general doctor and the kidney specialist. They give me excellent care, and will direct me to other specialists as needed and treat any issues that is in their area of expertise. They are usually successful in what they do, but payment is not contingent on success because that is not the agreement we made. One thing I try to remember is that it is not the doctor that made me sick, and I'm happy to have access to consultants that are willing to try to help me ethically, by morally using the system we have in place, imperfect though it may be.

This other "Asian" style system could be badly abused by an immoral doctor. He could work the numbers. He could offer benign useless treatments under false pretenses. Then all of his patients that just happen to be healthy and just happen to stay healthy keep paying him. Those that get sick and do not recover on their own, he can just ignore and not worry about treating. They don't pay anyway.

Maybe one of those industries is rife with corruption? I mean in how many other industries would we be prepared to keep paying someone for failing repeatedly?

There are many. What about weather forecasters? They get paid to use their expertise to analyze data, run models and make the best predictions they can. Their predictions are wrong just as often as they are right. But, they don't get paid to be right. They get paid to know their field as best as it can be known within the constraints of our limited scientific knowledge.

 

BILL_M

I've been working with DNA for about three decades. I know exactly what it is, how it behaves, how we and natural life forms manipulate it, how it stores information and how it is damaged.

At any given moment there are probably at least several hundred errors in the genome of a particular cell (out of ~3 billion nucleotide in the human genome). Most DNA damage has no effect on a cell, primarily because most (roughly 90%) of the genome contains very little information.

1) Cancer is not unique in that it is caused by changes in the genome, indeed many cancers do not have a gnomic component. (2) Cancer isn't a disease by any accepted medical definition, it is more properly described as a "syndrome" and even that description is lacking. The term "cancer" is just an observation of improper cell proliferation (growth and division) without any indication of the underlying cause. Thousands of genes are involved in cell proliferation. Changes in any of a large number of those genes will cause the syndrome we call 'cancer'. But as I said, there isn't always a genomic basis. In cases where the genome is involved you must first figure out which of the 3 billion nucleotides is changed, you must differentiate between normal variation and disease causing variation, and you must then go in and repair the specific defects. If a defect is caused by radiation there is no procedure that would allow you to use the same radiation to correct the error.


Did I flame? Maybe, but ignorance of science, disguised as science, drives me nuts. There is no such thing as perpetual motion (and even if it could be done it would have nearly zero economic value, for economic value you would need "greater than unity" not perpetual motion). "They" aren't hiding the water injection carburetor that gets 300 MPG. You can't rearrange a cells genome with RF or magnetism (though with enough RF you might be able to cook the cell). You can't soften water with a magnet. Some chemical reactions really are irreversible since you can't recover information once it has been destroyed. Evolution does not violate the three laws of thermodynamics and dinosaur bones were not deposited in Noah's flood. That really clever thought experiment involving a race car on a train flat car does not disprove special relativity.

If someone posted that V=I^3/sqrt(R) I would hope that would be corrected by other posters. Similarly if someone posts on a 300 MPG carb, even though it is off the topic of this board, I would hope someone would correct it.

 

I find the idea quite interesting and am glad that people are working on something other than drugs. Here is a more detailed article: https://www.uab.edu/news/latest/item/1538-new-non-invasive-technology-shows-promise-in-shrinking-liver-tumors.
Our bodies run on electricity and electromagnetic fields, so why not try it out?

p.s. we are already using RF to fry cells
https://www.uab.edu/news/latest/ite...ology-shows-promise-in-shrinking-liver-tumors

 

He does provide a moral system of payment. The morality is not system dependent, but people dependent. Any system can be abused and any system can be used fairly. My chiropractor charges me $30 per visit.
...

I do owe an apology for that comment SteveB, it was too strongly worded and any accusation of "immorality" was not specifically aimed at your Chiropractor but more so at the flaws in the western medical system.

As an example the insurance companies have pushed liability insurance through the roof (whether or not caused by scammers who sue their doctor for anything they can), it means there is a large difference between what things cost and what they could or should cost. Likewise the system is milked in an immoral fashion by pharmaceutical and equipment/service providers who CAN charge huge fees because their customers are very desperate and the licensing system eliminates competition.

From what you have said your Chiro sounds like one of the good ones, trying to distance himself from some of those issues in the medical system.

 

I do owe an apology for that comment SteveB, it was too strongly worded and any accusation of "immorality" was not specifically aimed at your Chiropractor but more so at the flaws in the western medical system.

Oh, no need for an apology. I know you didn't mean it in a bad way and just have issues with the system. I just think that even our flawed system can be used effectively when good people are involved.

No doubt that there are big problems with medical insurance both for doctor's liability and for patient coverage. Maybe more to your point, the problems seem to be at risk of spiraling the system out of control and leaving an unmanageable situation at some point in the future.