Here in my part of Canada with many people vaccinated:
Almost every Covid-19 person in the ICU is unvaccinated and is intubed (very painful treatment).
2/3 of the new cases are unvaccinated and going to the hospital, the vaccinated cases have minor or no symptoms and are at home.
The mandates are keeping the few unvaxed people away from work without pay.

USA is very different with many antivaxers and hospitals at or over their limit.

 

You make it sound like there are no mandates at all. Can you drive drunk? Can you shoot who you want? Can you smoke in a public building or bar? Can you drive without insurance, or on the sidewalk? Can you pour toxic chemicals down the drain? It goes on and on. Mandates and laws come about because people don't do what is moral and right.

All good points. However is driving a right or privilege? Driving and getting a drivers license is a privilege and along with that privilege there are laws to follow. The question is can forcing people to get vaccinated a violation of their rights? Driving a motor vehicle is not a right anymore than smoking in a public building is a right. The right to keep and bear arms is a right but with that right it does not mean it's OK to simply shoot people who annoy you. So yes, there are laws and people are expected to abide by those laws but can mandatory vaccination be a law? Eventually all of this will play out in the courts and likely lead to the supreme court. While people enjoy rights like freedom of speech that does not mean it's OK to scream fire in a crowded movie theatre. A mandate is not a law. Plain and simple. Your references are to laws not mandates. Laws are not mandates so back to square one. So should it become law that all US citizens be vaccinated? The government has a right to issue a mandate on a temporary basis and even then if that mandate violates anyone's rights the government can be challenged.

Mandate:
an official order or commission to do something.
"a mandate to seek the release of political prisoners" or "a mandate to have all citizens vaccinated".
the authority to carry out a policy or course of action, regarded as given by the electorate to a candidate or party that is victorious in an election.

Law:
the system of rules which a particular country or community recognizes as regulating the actions of its members and which it may enforce by the imposition of penalties.
"they were taken to court for breaking the law"

Ron

 

USA is very different with many antivaxers and hospitals at or over their limit.

While the US and Canada share thousands of miles or kilometers of common border they do not share the same form of government and just maybe you should understand that.
Canada is a parliamentary democracy: its system of government holds that the law is the supreme authority.
The United States while often categorized as a democracy, the United States is more accurately defined as a constitutional federal republic.
It's not about anti vaccination as you seem to believe. Now stop the snide nonsense comments which reflect those of the woefully uneducated. Get a clue.

Almost every Covid-19 person in the ICU is unvaccinated and is intubed (very painful treatment).

Intubed? I can only assume you mean intubated?

Patients with COVID-19 who deteriorate and need additional support with their breathing require intubating and ventilating. That means a tube is inserted and a ventilation machine delivers oxygen straight to the lungs.

Commonly called a trach tube short for tracheotomy tube and it is not painful. How do you come up with this nonsense? You just invent words as you go?

Thank You and Have a Nice Canadian Day
Ron

 

It has been mandated for many years that all kids in Canada must have 9 vaccines in order to attend school. The Covid-19 vaccine has not been approved yet but will be soon.

Many articles in Google say that patients in the ICU of a hospital with severe Covid-19 need a ventilator that is intubated down the throat. It damages the esophagus and trachea. Expanding and contracting the infected lungs is also very painful then the patients are given sedation and pain killers.
A Trach operation is not always used because it is invasive and spreads the infection into the air to the medical people in the operating room.
Not all patients survive but most must learn how to breathe on their own.

The vaccine is safe and effective in preventing the spreading of the virus and preventing severe infection.

 

The dichotomy of China. I buy various goods from china. Lately for the last few weeks various mega-vendors of chinese goods have been warning that shipping is being delayed by Covid. How can that be? The 7 day average for the entire country is ~55 new cases daily and that is due to a spike in infections! I do know that following the logistics (chinese for shipping) for my packages they move well until they reach Shanghai. Some have been sitting in Shanghai for weeks now. We all know that the US west coast ports have waiting ships stacked offshore waiting to unload due to the heavy volume and bottlenecking at the ports unloading them. But my packages are being shipped by air freight! So just how is it that with such an astoundingly low number of chinese being infected that they are unable to ship and blaming it on Covid? I think I smell a Rat even though it's the year of the Ox...

 

How do you come up with this nonsense? You just invent words as you go?

I think that we should all take a deep breath and calm down.

I think that the most important thing that we should be talking about is what effect vaccines are having at a population level via the data.

The claim was made that people who are vaccinated will be less prone to be needing hospitalisation. Current data seems to support this (here) or (here)

It has also predicted a fall in case numbers, which we can see looking at the 7 day average of many places.

In NSW Australia there has been a large outbreak which has caused vaccination rates to shoot up very quickly. Notice the case numbers fall quickly after this has happened...



The Australian state of Victoria has had a similar situation and we are starting to see the numbers follow the same trend as NSW...


Based on other regions around the world I'm expect the trend to keep going in the same direction.

 

The dichotomy of China. I buy various goods from china. Lately for the last few weeks various mega-vendors of chinese goods have been warning that shipping is being delayed by Covid. How can that be? The 7 day average for the entire country is ~55 new cases daily and that is due to a spike in infections! I do know that following the logistics (chinese for shipping) for my packages they move well until they reach Shanghai. Some have been sitting in Shanghai for weeks now. We all know that the US west coast ports have waiting ships stacked offshore waiting to unload due to the heavy volume and bottlenecking at the ports unloading them. But my packages are being shipped by air freight! So just how is it that with such an astoundingly low number of chinese being infected that they are unable to ship and blaming it on Covid?

China has a very strict Covid-Zero policy. Many of the main shipping ports and major transportation cities have been shutdown for just a few cases.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/08/13/chi...-shipping-as-ningbo-zhoushan-port-shuts-.html

 

I think that we should all take a deep breath and calm down.

I think that the most important thing that we should be talking about is what effect vaccines are having at a population level via the data.

The claim was made that people who are vaccinated will be less prone to be needing hospitalisation. Current data seems to support this (here) or (here)

It has also predicted a fall in case numbers, which we can see looking at the 7 day average of many places.

In NSW Australia there has been a large outbreak which has caused vaccination rates to shoot up very quickly. Notice the case numbers fall quickly after this has happened...

View attachment 251652

The Australian state of Victoria has had a similar situation and we are starting to see the numbers follow the same trend as NSW...
View attachment 251653

Based on other regions around the world I'm expect the trend to keep going in the same direction.

This is typical of what we see with delta spikes. A sharp rise and usually a sharp fall.

 

Yes, they just quarantined 30,000 attendees at the Shanghai Disneyland due to 1 attendee testing positive. I guess that was 1 of the 55 country wide for that day.

 

Yes, they just quarantined 30,000 attendees at the Shanghai Disneyland due to 1 attendee testing positive. I guess that was 1 of the 55 country wide for that day.

Halloween became a nightmare.

 

All good points. (snip)

Brings to mind an old saying, "elections have consequences". I doubt we would even be having this discussion if someone else had won. Every one of the "hold outs" would be jumping through hoops to get a jab. Being it's only the 30% that are against it.

 

Brings to mind an old saying, "elections have consequences". I doubt we would even be having this discussion if someone else had won. Every one of the "hold outs" would be jumping through hoops to get a jab. Being it's only the 30% that are against it.

No, No, No we can't even whisper about that. You know the drill better than I. This morning's news mentioned a new variant but I just sort of have become numb to all of it. Before COVID all the news was drug overdoses and apparently drug overdose has fallen out of media favor replaced by COVID.

Ron

 

No, No, No we can't even whisper about that. You know the drill better than I. This morning's news mentioned a new variant but I just sort of have become numb to all of it. Before COVID all the news was drug overdoses and apparently drug overdose has fallen out of media favor replaced by COVID.

Ron

In BC drug overdose deaths still outnumber COVID deaths but noone talks about anymore.

 

In BC drug overdose deaths still outnumber COVID deaths but noone talks about anymore.

Pretty sure it's the same down here. On the bright side COVID related deaths are down overall. My best guess is beyond vaccine we are simply running out of people to contract COVID and spread it.

Ron

 

 

Almost always and certainly today, 2 or 3 times more unvaxed people are new Covid cases than vaxed people and almost ALL unvaxed cases go to the hospital with many having severe problems in the ICU, while the vaxed people who caught the virus frequently have NO symptoms. A HUGE difference.

 

Apparently she was no more immune as a result of vaccination than my sister. While my sister was miserable for a few says of flu like symptoms she was fine after a few more days and eventually her sense of taste and smell returned. I guess now after both doses of vaccination and a dose of COVID she is likely pretty immune.

Ron

 

Almost always and certainly today, 2 or 3 times more unvaxed people are new Covid cases than vaxed people and almost ALL unvaxed cases go to the hospital with many having severe problems in the ICU, while the vaxed people who caught the virus frequently have NO symptoms. A HUGE difference.

Actually more like ~97% of ALL new cases are not serious and MOST of those are asymptomatic. The fact is VERY few people are actually at risk of dying from Covid these days. It's just another flu virus at this point...

 

Actually more like ~97% of ALL new cases are not serious and MOST of those are asymptomatic. The fact is VERY few people are actually at risk of dying from Covid these days. It's just another flu virus at this point...

You are talking about the original virus from China almost 2 years ago and before vaccines were developed. Then the UK variant came then the India variant. The variants get stronger. Now there is the Delta+ variant from India which is much more serious and deadly.

Professional medical people say on the news every day that most new cases are unvaccinated people and many go to the hospital ICU for life support. It is the fewer vaccinated cases that have mild or no symptoms.

85% of eligible people in my area are vaccinated. Hospitals here are bringing in and treating antivax cowboys from another area (their hospitals are full) who are not vaccinated.

 

You are talking about the original virus from China almost 2 years ago and before vaccines were developed. Then the UK variant came then the India variant. The variants get stronger. Now there is the Delta+ variant from India which is much more serious and deadly.

So the original absolutely without a doubt came from China but the variant of what you claim came from China actually came from India? So did it actually come from China and the variant from India or was the variant simply discovered in India? I would really like to know? How can I be absolutely sure? Could the variant for example been in Pakistan and only showed up in India first?

Ron