If you are being careful to be mathematically rigorous and stay in conformance with the definitions of charge, voltage, energy, power, and all of the other quantities, then yes.

If you are a typical electron-flow aficionado, then no because you will be sloppy with your definitions (mostly because you don't give them any thought) and will get in the habit of throwing about magical mystery minus signs in order to get things to work out the way you want them to.

Aha gotcha, so because of the signs of charge and direction, the current will be positive no matter which side it is “leaving”. But it’s just harder to stay consistent? Sorry for asking so many questions

 

Aha gotcha, so because of the signs of charge and direction, the current will be positive no matter which side it is “leaving”. But it’s just harder to stay consistent? Sorry for asking so many questions

I'm not sure what you mean by "the current will be positive" in this context.

If I connect a 5 Ω resistor to a 10 V battery and draw an arrow for the current coming out of the positive terminal, the current in that direction is +2 A.

If I connect a 5 Ω resistor to a 10 V battery and draw an arrow for the current coming out of the negative terminal, the current in that direction is -2 A.

Notice that I have not said which, if either, of these two drawings is conventional current or electron current, because it doesn't matter. Electric current is about the net change in charge, not the details of the movements of charge carriers.

But the typical electron-flow practitioner will insist that both are descriptions using conventional current and that a diagram that uses electron-flow would have the arrow coming out of the negative terminal and that the current in that direction is +2 A.

 

But when you say that the direction is negative, that means it is in the opposite direction, so going TOWARD the negative terminal.

Wouldn’t negative direction mean it’s going towards the positive because the direction is defined as flowing positive toward negative

 

Wouldn’t negative direction mean it’s going towards the positive because the direction is defined as flowing positive toward negative

We may be talking apples and oranges, so let me be more specific.

Normally when we talk about the "direction" of the current we mean the direction of the symbolic current. I put an arrow next to a wire and label it with Io, that means that Io is the current flowing in the direction of that arrow, regardless of whether Io happens to be positive or negative or anything else. So if this is the direction that I defined my current, the "negative direction" is the direction opposite this.

 

We may be talking apples and oranges, so let me be more specific.

Normally when we talk about the "direction" of the current we mean the direction of the symbolic current. I put an arrow next to a wire and label it with Io, that means that Io is the current flowing in the direction of that arrow, regardless of whether Io happens to be positive or negative or anything else. So if this is the direction that I defined my current, the "negative direction" is the direction opposite this.

Yes so my understanding is that conventional current defines the direction as going positive to negative. Then if you take Dq/dt from the positive terminal it is a positive charge and the direction is inline with the defined positive direction so two positive are positive. Then with the direction still defined the same way, if you look at the electron flow perspective it is moving opposite to that defined direction so there’s a negative and since the charges themselves are negative the overall value is positive. Hence It seems that there is a positive amp value flowing from each side which doesn’t make sense to me

 

Wouldn’t negative direction mean it’s going towards the positive because the direction is defined as flowing positive toward negative

You are doing it again.
The sign on the battery terminal does not dictate which direction the current is following, not electrons, not conventional current.

Stop doing this.

 

You are doing it again.
The sign on the battery terminal does not dictate which direction the current is following, not electrons, not conventional current.

Stop doing this.

What does dictate it then?

 

Yes so my understanding is that conventional current defines the direction as going positive to negative. Then if you take Dq/dt from the positive terminal it is a positive charge and the direction is inline with the defined positive direction so two positive are positive. Then with the direction still defined the same way, if you look at the electron flow perspective it is moving opposite to that defined direction so there’s a negative and since the charges themselves are negative the overall value is positive. Hence It seems that there is a positive amp value flowing from each side which doesn’t make sense to me

No, conventional current has nothing to do with the direction of current flow -- it is a merely a convention whereby the current is described in terms of the flow of charge. It is thus equivalent to positive current flowing in the same direction that positive charge carriers would move if the current was made up of such charge carriers.

You are always free to assign the reference directions of your currents however you choose -- often times we don't know the actual direction of current and so we might as well flip a coin. That's fine.

 

No, conventional current has nothing to do with the direction of current flow -- it is a merely a convention whereby the current is described in terms of the flow of charge. It is thus equivalent to positive current flowing in the same direction that positive charge carriers would move if the current was made up of such charge carriers.

You are always free to assign the reference directions of your currents however you choose -- often times we don't know the actual direction of current and so we might as well flip a coin. That's fine.

Okay well let’s assume the direction of current is in the same direction as the actual flow of current, then my statement above would be fair correct?

 

What does dictate it then?

Find the direction of the current (electron or conventional) in each resistor.

 

Find the direction of the current (electron or conventional) in each resistor.

View attachment 198883

Using mesh analysis defining both currents clockwise: -10+1i1+(i1-i2)10=0
(i2-i1)10+1i2+5=0
Put it into a calculator just for convenience i1 is 20/7 and i2 is 15/7, so i1 comes out of the + of the 10V and i2 entered the + of the 5V. I don’t know how to solve it using electron flow honestly

so the current goes from left to right in theleft resistor top to bottom in the middle and left to right in the right

 

I'm not sure what you mean by "the current will be positive" in this context.

If I connect a 5 Ω resistor to a 10 V battery and draw an arrow for the current coming out of the positive terminal, the current in that direction is +2 A.

If I connect a 5 Ω resistor to a 10 V battery and draw an arrow for the current coming out of the negative terminal, the current in that direction is -2 A.

Notice that I have not said which, if either, of these two drawings is conventional current or electron current, because it doesn't matter. Electric current is about the net change in charge, not the details of the movements of charge carriers.

But the typical electron-flow practitioner will insist that both are descriptions using conventional current and that a diagram that uses electron-flow would have the arrow coming out of the negative terminal and that the current in that direction is +2 A.

In this case doesn’t the convention matter a lot. If we define a positive current to be in the direction that a positive charge would flow(conventional current) then a negative charge moving against that convention would induce a negative sign because of opposing direction as well as a negative sign from the charge of the carrier and give an overall positive value?

and yes obviously this is just an assumption if we solve for the current value in that direction and see that it’s negative then we know that the positive charge is actually moving in the opposite direction.

 

If I move a positive charge from A to B, B will attain a positive charge leaving behind A with a negative charge.
If I move a negative charge from B to A, A will gain a negative charge leaving behind B with a positive charge.

View attachment 198829
The two situations are identical.

This is the comment that really makes sense to me. Is there anyway you can tie this into the conventions and how direction works?

 

This is the comment that really makes sense to me. Is there anyway you can tie this into the conventions and how direction works?

I already told you. Multiply the direction of the current with the sign of the charge.

 

I already told you. Multiply the direction of the current with the sign of the charge.

Okay so this is based off of conventional current definition correct? We’re assuming it leaves the positive with positive charge flowing and since the negative charges would be flowing the opposite direction that’s a double negative and is therefore the exact same value (not even a sign difference) so does this mean that either way you look at it the current is still positive? And is this what electron flow actually is? The movement of negative charge carriers from the negative terminal in the opposite direction of conventional current, which therefore gives the same mathematical value? What am I still missing?

 

Using mesh analysis defining both currents clockwise: -10+1i1+(i1-i2)10=0
(i2-i1)10+1i2+5=0
Put it into a calculator just for convenience i1 is 20/7 and i2 is 15/7, so i1 comes out of the + of the 10V and i2 entered the + of the 5V. I don’t know how to solve it using electron flow honestly

so the current goes from left to right in theleft resistor top to bottom in the middle and left to right in the right

Ignore electron flow or conventional flow.
Just work with charge flow, period. The sign of the charge does not matter.

Your results are incorrect. You made a mistake in your math.

Have you been taught Kirchhoff's Voltage Law (KVL) and Kirchhoff's Current Law (KCL)?

 

Ignore electron flow or conventional flow.
Just work with charge flow, period. The sign of the charge does not matter.

Your results are incorrect. You made a mistake in your math.

Have you been taught Kirchhoff's Voltage Law (KVL) and Kirchhoff's Current Law (KCL)?

Yes I have

 

Okay so this is based off of conventional current definition correct? We’re assuming it leaves the positive with positive charge flowing and since the negative charges would be flowing the opposite direction that’s a double negative and is therefore the exact same value (not even a sign difference) so does this mean that either way you look at it the current is still positive? And is this what electron flow actually is? The movement of negative charge carriers from the negative terminal in the opposite direction of conventional current, which therefore gives the same mathematical value? What am I still missing?

I told you. Ignore the sign on the terminal. That is meaningless for this discussion.
Also ignore electrons. Think in terms of charge, positive or negative.

Yes, moving negative charge in one direction has the same effect as moving positive charge in the opposite direction.

 

I told you. Ignore the sign on the terminal. That is meaningless for this discussion.
Also ignore electrons. Think in terms of charge, positive or negative.

Yes, moving negative charge in one direction has the same effect as moving positive charge in the opposite direction.

Okay so negative charge moving one way is the same as positive charge moving the other and they can both be assigned a positive value with their respective opposing directions and it won’t matter?

also, sorry for bringing this up again but why are we keen on ignoring the terminals?

 

I take it with a grain of salt and some common sense. You will continue to see it both ways depending on the document you are reading so get familiar with it. Once I became used to it, it became a non-issue.