To be clear, Spook, you're a lot of things. A Luddite is not one of them -- or, at least I've never gotten that impression.

OK, but I don't see much wrong in being an AI Luddite at this stage of might/maybe/could advances with current technology. Much of what I see with the future dreams of AI is modern techno driven Utopianism. AI Luddism enables critical reflection and evaluation of what we are doing in the name this IMO Marxist/socialist/postcapitalism AI utopian vision of a future for humans.

The AI reality we discuss here is IMO a far cry from that Utopianism.

 

AI Luddism enables critical reflection and evaluation of what we are doing in the name this IMO Marxist/socialist/postcapitalism AI utopian vision of a future for humans.

AI, I suppose, can seem as Marxist as a hammer and sickle, if one chooses it as imagery to advance an agenda.

On the other hand, tools are useless (and non-existent) without industrious work. That requires capitalism. Post or otherwise.

Like I said in an earlier post: I don't believe AI will free humans from labor. It will -- ultimately -- make their labor more productive. 80 hour work weeks will always be there for those who enjoy it (me being one of them).

 

The Luddite label is very misleading. People have every right to oppose societal changes that reduce their quality of life.

For example if mass immigration of workers reduces your earning potential you'll want to oppose it, is that being a Luddite?

Some changes benefit a social group other changes do not, opposing the latter is natural for people in that group.

Capitalism isn't interested in quality of life except for the few, the investors, that's it's goal.

Unless and until your own quality of life is threatened by AI you'll be living in the delusion that it's "good", but spare a thought for people who must contend with 24/7 humming around their neighborhood, or people who are being forced to sell their homes to make way for these datacenters.

Capitalism cares not for people, that's obvious if we look around, earnings have hardly risen for the vast majority of people, yet corporate profits are insane. Standard of living hasn't risen since say 1960, the middle class has shrunk, homelessness has increased, the prison population has far outpaced population growth.

I see no prospect of these trends reversing despite AI, despite capitalism, most people who throw fear around with scary words like "Marxism" and "socialism" and "communism" have never read even one book about these ideas.

 

10 ring. I'm impressed by my own marxmanship.

 

10 ring. I'm impressed by my own marxmanship.

You're so easily impressed, tell me how exactly does AI help you write your little 8-bit PIC code? how do you personally actually benefit?

 

10 ring. I'm impressed by my own marxmanship.

You're a comedian, confusing Grouch Marxism with Marxism. Breaking: You owe 360,000 bucks by the way, don't forget that, socialism for the rich costs the rest of us big as you know.



Track your "investments" here: https://www.usdebtclock.org/

 

https://www.unite.ai/ai-is-less-likely-to-launch-a-nuclear-strike-when-it-reasons-in-japanese/

AI is Less Likely to Launch a Nuclear Strike When It Reasons in Japanese

Because it's not reasoning, it's using the training set to calculate symbol probilities.

Arguably, the paper’s results strengthen the case against treating hyperscale LLMs as a reliable foundation for highly specialized systems operating in safety-critical domains.

Yet the industry is increasingly doing exactly that – reflected even in the term foundation model. The new paper’s findings suggest that models’ vast latent spaces may ultimately remain more faithful to the dominant cultural and statistical patterns embedded in their training data, rather than to the narrow behavioral constraints imposed by downstream guardrails.

 

I have become a traitor to the anti-AI cabal here that i once belonged to. Some extensive chatting has led me to believe that it s incredibly useful and beneficial.

As only one example, I will describe how it has led me diagnose some hip pain I have been experiencing. A simple Google search led me to bursitis, which would be the most likely cause of pain in the location I am experiencing it. But then, I started a chat with Gemini. It’s first thought was indeed bursitis, but it started drilling down, and bursitis became less likely. Through an hours long process, it arrived at a different diagnosis. It is more likely a strain of some stabilizing muscles brought on by a new and different dance move I had been practicing. It did this without knowing that my wife, who also practiced it, also has similar pain. A good human diagnostician who spent that kind of time with me, would likely have come to the same conclusion. It also predicted some aspects of the way the pain behaves without my telling it so. I believe AI diagnosis will become the norm because it is far more efficient than human diagnosis. We cannot all see specialists who spend an hour on an intelligently guided interview. But the AI is willing and IMHO capable of doing this right now.

Note that I am not basing my new opinion on this one chat. I have done many, on many topics. My overall impression is that I am talking to the most intelligent person I have ever encountered. We are there. This is actually what general AI looks like.

I don’t want to argue with anyone here about my new position. But if you wish to spend a few hours checking it out, just go to Google and chat as if it was an intelligent person you are talking to, and I would love to hear your thoughts on it.

I am using gemini from the Google prompt, so I am not logged in and it does not know who I am. I would suggest the same if you do not to give out information traceable to you, though of course, any interaction can be traced with enough effort.

 

It can be incredibly useful and beneficial while not actually being intelligent.

It can be both at the same time.

We humans are giving it the product of our collective intelligence using language. You're not a traitor, to some foolish anti-cabal, you're a person with the knowledge and intelligence to use it effectively. Just don't be foolish about what it really is, a statistically non-deterministic token chooser that mimics it's training data.

At the AGI stage depends on what you mean by AGI, these things still fumble things that come easily to human and create 'facts' that seem very convincing to those not expert in the field of questions.

 

Last year I was posting here about how useful AI was for developing code, I recall many voices here were rather disparaging about it, now those same voices are suddenly waxing lyrical about AI, how strange.

 

Last year I was posting here about how useful AI was for developing code, I recall many voices here were rather disparaging about it, now those same voices are suddenly waxing lyrical about AI, how strange.

What is it with you and non sequiturs?

Again, I ask: what grade are you in?

 

What is it with you and non sequiturs?

Again, I ask: what grade are you in?

Asking me what grade I'm in is a non sequitur, I'm 65.

This is the off-topic area, if I see controversial stuff posted with which I disagree then I sometimes post my disagreement, disagreeing isn't a crime, well in the novel 1984 it was but that was fiction (or so I once thought).

 

Just don't be foolish about what it really is, a statistically non-deterministic token chooser that mimics it's training data.

See, this is where you and I we diverge. I don’t see it as any different than the brain exhibiting intelligent behavior. I believe the brain is doing something similar on vastly different hardware.

I agree completely that some people will b able to use AI intelligently, while others will either be hoist on their own petard, or ignore it and fall behind. The biggest societal change I see is further separating us into two classes.

 

I agree completely that some people will b able to use AI intelligently, while others will either be hoist on their own petard, or ignore it and fall behind. The biggest societal change I see is further separating us into two classes.

Yes, those with functioning brains, and those without.

Business as usual.

 

See, this is where you and I we diverge. I don’t see it as any different than the brain exhibiting intelligent behavior. I believe the brain is doing something similar on vastly different hardware.

I agree completely that some people will b able to use AI intelligently, while others will either be hoist on their own petard, or ignore it and fall behind. The biggest societal change I see is further separating us into two classes.

The brain communicates intelligence using language, LLMs use that human generated language/tokens to mimic that process at the language level by analyzing the embedded intelligence from human sources into computer compatible memory vectors that classify information. LLMs don't generate/have intelligence as native functionality. Something else in the AI field of study will eventually.

The brain is not a computer as we currently build computers IMO, it's something much more powerful that we are learning to emulate it's language capabilities as a abstraction of deeper cognitive processes.

 

The brain communicates intelligence using language, LLMs use that human generated language/tokens to mimic that process at the language level

And how is this different than humans? Where do humans get their language if not from mimicking other humans?

The brain is not a computer

Sure, whatever you say Mr Spook. What is it in your view? An eternal soul inserted by God as I learned in Catholic schools?

Occam’s razor chopped that one off for me.

Do you understand the intelligent system answer to John Chinese room? If not, an AI can fill you in.

 

And how is this different than humans? Where do humans get their language if not from mimicking other humans?

Sure, whatever you say Mr Bill. What is it in your view? An eternal soul inserted by God as I learned in Catholic schools?

Occam’s razor chopped that one off for me.

Do you understand the “intelligent system”answer to John Searle’s Chinese room? If not, an AI can fill you in.

I'm an atheist. What a cheap shot strawman.

Who's talking about language as in spanish, english or ... ? It's language as brain functionally (child's babbling shortly after birth) that has the ability to mimic other humans language.
Intelligence here is not a product and a process, acquired through espionage.

Wasted my time again trying to have a intelligent conversation with you. Yes, I know about John Searle’s Chinese room. I can read about things I'm interested in without the aid of AI.

 

As a heathen non-believer myself (raised Catholic), I think its pretty rude to insult 80% of the population who believes in a higher power.

That group includes some pretty smart folk, many here on AAC. Often, I wish I had their conviction.

 

https://www.dailymail.com/ushome/index.html

 

I'm an atheist.

Old fashioned atheist or modern atheist?