Can banks predict (control) the future?

MrChips

Joined Oct 2, 2009
21,902
I thought you were referring to adding billions into the money supply. You are correct on small loans.
No. The amount of money that is printed or coined is a very small percentage, less than 5%, of the total money in circulation.

The remaining 95% is created by commercial banks as loans. That is most of the money supply is created from nothing as debt!

The money that is created goes back to the banks. The banksters have control over you, your children and grandchildren. The banksters rule the world.
 
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Thread Starter

strantor

Joined Oct 3, 2010
5,333
I'm going back to trading goats. Surely you can't get in goat-debt? Right?
Tom I've been thinking about all of this, and what we can do about it. I realize that was a joke, but the best I've come up with so far is boycotting the dollar to the extent possible. If we can use tools like craigslist to trade services and physical things for physical things and services and we do this on a large enough scale, I think it would at the very least send a message. It would also get us prepared for the collapse which I am believing a little stronger every day is inevitable. trading connections; start making them.
 

MrChips

Joined Oct 2, 2009
21,902
Tom I've been thinking about all of this, and what we can do about it. I realize that was a joke, but the best I've come up with so far is boycotting the dollar to the extent possible. If we can use tools like craigslist to trade services and physical things for physical things and services and we do this on a large enough scale, I think it would at the very least send a message. It would also get us prepared for the collapse which I am believing a little stronger every day is inevitable. trading connections; start making them.
I've been promoting this. Buy Nothing Day was Nov 26 2011. Now I'm pushing for Buy Nothing for Xmas!
 

thatoneguy

Joined Feb 19, 2009
6,359
Tom I've been thinking about all of this, and what we can do about it. I realize that was a joke, but the best I've come up with so far is boycotting the dollar to the extent possible. If we can use tools like craigslist to trade services and physical things for physical things and services and we do this on a large enough scale, I think it would at the very least send a message. It would also get us prepared for the collapse which I am believing a little stronger every day is inevitable. trading connections; start making them.
That's how I do a lot of stuff, and have for a long time, since college at least, nobody had money in college so everything including beer and TP was barter and trade homework or something. Being handy in a few different areas can get you a lot of nice dinners. So is the willingness to move the snow off the sidewalk/driveway of the little old lady next door.
 

MrChips

Joined Oct 2, 2009
21,902
Actually, if you haven't noticed, this is what AAC is all about. We share our knowledge, expertise, time and even parts, without exchange of money. We all benefit from each other's work and that is what the real economy is all about - helping each other.
 

justtrying

Joined Mar 9, 2011
429
@strantor
This is what I'm afraid of and sure that the banks will gladly support:
Debtor Prisons--coming to a theater near you...
http://rt.com/usa/news/resurgence-america-debtor-prisons/
One would think labor camp would be more productive, no?

I've been boycotting the commercial spirit of christmas for years now. Home made gift is where it's at and always has been. I wanted to send my grandma LED flashers for Christmas displaying my electronics savvy but "they" will probably think its a bomb... Can one send home-made electronic devices via mail now-a-days?

For a goat I can knit you a sweater :)
 

Thread Starter

strantor

Joined Oct 3, 2010
5,333
Been giving more thought to the "boycott the dollar, barter" thing. This will only take us so far. there is only so much you can do with a goat. what if I want one of justtying's LED flashers, but he doesn't want a goat and doesn't know anybody who wants a sweater. Am I supposed to fork over my first born? No, there needs to be currency. Why not make a new currency? some communities are already doing it. but I'm talking about an online community, with online currency. you could sign up and find work. maybe you log in and see that someone needs their patio stripped & painted; you can make a deal to do it for X amount of credits. then you can use these credit to buy the motorcycle someone just listed. that would be a lot easier than trying to find someone who has a motorcycle, willing to trade for wood work. The currency in the online economy will always be proportional to the amount of members, so never any inflation or deflation. haven't figured out how to make that work yet. maybe for every new member who joins, 5 units of currency are dumped into the online economy randomly. you could log in one day and find yourself 5 units richer. but this would invite hit-&-runs. still not sure. Also no loans with interest
 

MrChips

Joined Oct 2, 2009
21,902
Actually, there are alternatives called local or alternative currency and these are springing up everywhere across the globe. Google LETS. I am busy working on one as fast as I can. Also google Transition Towns.
 

Thread Starter

strantor

Joined Oct 3, 2010
5,333
The currency in the online economy will always be proportional to the amount of members, so never any inflation or deflation. haven't figured out how to make that work yet. maybe for every new member who joins, 5 units of currency are dumped into the online economy randomly. you could log in one day and find yourself 5 units richer. but this would invite hit-&-runs. still not sure.
I found the answer in your video mrchips
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TwmM5Nb6hiE
starts around 59:00

there doesn't need to be a fixed amount of currency. you just go negative if you buy something and positive if you sell something
 

tom66

Joined May 9, 2009
2,595
But then you would get financial institutions popping up and offering "credit" loans. And we'd be in the same pile of .... again.

I'm I kind of buy nothing guy, although it's hard not to. I avoid buying the silly consumer things (like a super thin TV, I think I'll just get me a 42" LCD from the dump) but I still buy necessities, and things for my projects.
 

Thread Starter

strantor

Joined Oct 3, 2010
5,333
But then you would get financial institutions popping up and offering "credit" loans. And we'd be in the same pile of .... again.
yeah that's why I said:
...Also no loans with interest

I'm I kind of buy nothing guy, although it's hard not to. I avoid buying the silly consumer things (like a super thin TV, I think I'll just get me a 42" LCD from the dump) but I still buy necessities, and things for my projects.
Its not only hard to, but impossible to. There's no realistic way for everybody to be self suficient without some sort of trade. We are in dire need of a fair trading system.

@mrchips I am curious if you have crunched any numbers on how much work we actually need to do to sustain ourselves. For example: I work 60-70 hours per week at a skilled labor job. I have to work this many hours because, of the money that I earn, >1/3 of it goes to taxes, a portion goes to pay interest, and a portion goes to pay for things which are further taxed. I make less than I should because my employer is also paying interest and tax; and the things my employer buys carry a burden of higher price because the sellers are also paying interest and tax. I have a feeling that if you removed interest and tax from the equation at the highest level, and let all those otherwise disappearing dollars make their way down to me, and through me to the people that I pay for the things that I want, that I would be making a small fortune from all this work that I do. In other words, I am wondering what percentage of the effort I put forth on this hamster wheel is converted into food in my dish?

A few years ago I did a lot of reading on intentional communities. If you have not looked into that, it is a good read. People of various skill sets come together and live communally on a piece of land, and pool their resources. They basically have a small communist government. "ooohhh.. communism!", but no it really works out well for them. The problem with communism is converting an otherwise "free" nation to communism; you have to steal away a bunch of stuff from a bunch of people who earned it, and that's not right. Communism also doesn't work well on the nation-level, as mentioned previously, it does not inspire innovation and competition. BUT, in a small community of say 20 or 30 people, it works great. one person might plant & harvest corn; another might tend pigs; another might be a mechanic. or they might be a mechanic one week and a janitor the next. But the thing is, they all work the same amount of hours (free to put in those hours whenever they want) and they all get the same benefits. I read that they can get away with working as little as 30hrs per week, with the exception of busy times like harvesting. This also describes the Amish. They are self sufficient. I think their work week more accurately reflects the true amount of work needed to sustain. If that's the case then I'm a chump; putting in over two times the hours I need to, and still feeling like I'm struggling to keep my head above water.
 

MrChips

Joined Oct 2, 2009
21,902
The words "communism" and "socialism", like "conspiracy" carry around a lot of baggage so I avoid using them.

Under the current free market enterprise system, when we work we are actually slaves to the corporate power and banks and ultimately the 1%. They create the money which the 99% end up having to pay back to them through our manual labor.
France has 35-hour work week. In Norway the average work week is 30 hours.

Along with intentional communities, google ecovillages.

You may also want to google steady state economics.
 
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