It seems that a lot of the newbies think they can acquire a "satisfying" level of electronic understanding by surfing the internet, and hanging out at forums like this one. That doesn't work. It is no fun stumbling through electronics and banging into things because you have gaping holes in your fundamentals. If you want to start to learn about electronics, take some kind of organized class in basic electronics; on-line or brick and mortar, something with goals. Right now you don't have a clue, and that's cool, because we all started where you are at.

I bought my first oscilloscope from a guitar player who invested about $10k into every tool and gadget he could get because, like a hack golfer, he assumed that more expensive tools and gadgets must make hime better. His goal was to design stomp boxes and build the most awesome synthesizer ever made. I'm not sure he could make an LED flash if someone handed him a schematic.

 

I thought you were being condescending, @BR-549...
...until I read this...



Then I laughed.

... Then I read,


Then I wasn't sure I should continue laughing or ask the school district to return his parent's tax dollars.

"I've always had an innate interest in electronics"? Does he have some other recently acquired innate interests?

Hey Goph, is your self esteem so low that you need to flame strangers on forums so you feel better or are you just a natural jerk? Go harass someone else.

 

Hey Goph, is your self esteem so low that you need to flame strangers on forums or are you just a natural jerk? Go harass someone else. Or, if you want a really good laugh go look into a mirror.

That's Mr. GopherT. My skills are natural. Now you're making fun of my buck teeth? Or the bows on my pigtails?

Anyhow, I'm not flaming anyone. You walked in here looking like a burning car wreck. We are just trying to tell you that you should get a fire extinguisher.

So, what is the goal of this thread?

 

An organized course in electronics forces you to learn things that you would ignore otherwise. At the beginning, your understanding of electronics is paper thin. You are not competent to decide what you need to learn. You will naturally choose what is easy and what gives you instant gratification.......or getting into senseless verbal fights on an electronics forum.

 

Bureaucratic, or educational, or recruitment mush. Which is it?

I have never asked myself those questions when I wanted to learn something.

How would a newbie to any subject, know what to ask or what is pertinent?

Is that how they do it now? Let the student determine the course?

Fundamental principles in the proper sequence. No way around it.

Electronics is not a liberal art.

I'm not trying to be condescending, but I'm not impressed with the present education system performance.

Well at least we agree on something @BR-549, I'm not impressed with the educational system either. Good thing I'm not a teacher or a student. And I also agree on your fundamental principle statement.

It's shame some of us feel the need to put others down though. All I really want to do is create a resource so people can learn electronics. By asking questions I'm doing due diligence as putting such a resource together is sure to take some time. If anyone else here feels the questions are stupid, grammatically incorrect or flawed in some way they can either ignore them and not answer or perhaps they could do a better job of gathering this information. If the later is the case, I implore them to pitch in and do so.

 

That's Mr. GopherT. My skills are natural. Now you're making fun of my buck teeth? Or the bows on my pigtails?

Anyhow, I'm not flaming anyone. You walked in here looking like a burning car wreck. We are just trying to tell you that you should get a fire extinguisher.

So, what is the goal of this thread?

Lol, no one's disputing your skills. And asking people if they're new to the hobby makes me a car wreck? If so, there are nicer ways to help out. My goal was to gather info -- it was not to get sucked into a virtual fist fight, so I think I'm done with this part of the conversation.

 

@Spackler
How can you gather information to make a resource on something you know nothing about?? You have no knowledge to be able to tell the difference between good data and bad. In fact the resource that you seek to build, is right in front of you, and you are arguing with it. But you have no clue and I am wasting my time.

 

If the later is the case, I implore them to pitch in and do so.

Again, what is it you are trying to accomplish with this due diligence? How do you ask others to "pitch in" if nobody even understands what the &*#% you are trying to accomplish.

By the way, your car is still on fire.

 

When you start at the begining and see things change stuff makes sense. but if your a newbie an took apart a cell phone for the first time without ever seeing a valve table radio, it's big eye opener.

So, when your 12 years old 40 kV, 600 V didn't phase me poking around, OK, I was scared of the picture tube anode, but Dad taught me the one hand in the pocket and how to discharge high voltage. So, I learned stuff by fixing valve TV's and radios.

In high school I built a 3 kV supply for a science experiment I did,

At work, well the voltages went up to 100 kV (0.1A) and 15 kV @ 1.5 Amps and 1000 W RF transmitters with 3000 V supplies in them. The currents I was measuring also went way down too; like 2e-12 Amps or 2 pA.

Maintaining an old (741 OP amp based) Scanning Electron Microscope was actually fun.

 

If that's true then love to have even 1% of the newbies answer Maybe I should change my question a bit and ask the non-noobs to think back to when they were new and answer in that context.

The results of your survey will be fundamentally meaningless. What you are doing is called a "self-selective" survey and they are garbage. Once you get how ever many answers you get, you will analyze them and think you have learned something about "electronic newbies" in general when, in fact, at best you have learned something about the highly non-representative group of people that, for whatever reason, where the tiny minority that chose to answer your questions. The people that are representative of electronic newbies didn't answer your survey! That actually represents negative knowledge because you think you have learned something when you haven't, which is equivalent to knowing less than you did when you at least knew that you didn't know something.

I think the rule of thumb is that about 75% of the people that have the opportunity to respond to a survey must do so in order to be able to discount self-selection bias. That means, for one thing, that you have to have control over and be able to know who had the opportunity to respond. Beyond that, you need to ensure that the group of people that are given the opportunity to respond are, in fact, representative of the population you are trying to sample.

 

@Spackler
How can you gather information to make a resource on something you know nothing about?? You have no knowledge to be able to tell the difference between good data and bad. In fact the resource that you seek to build, is right in front of you, and you are arguing with it. But you have no clue and I am wasting my time.

@Lestraveled, why are people on this forum so negative??

You infer that I know nothing about electronics; the truth is you know nothing about me. FYI: I hold a bachelor's degree in electrical engineering, was an IEEE member for many years, and regularly read magazines like Circuit Cellar, Nuts & Volts, and IEEE Spectrum.

Yeah, I don't work in the field right now (I'm an entrepreneur) so I may be a bit rusty on some things, but your inference is wrong.

The resource I wish to create is more than a forum; I'm looking to create a logically organized, step by step resource consisting of written material and videos to teach basic electronics to help people get start. So, the resource may start with basic tools and color code, and near the end talk about using microcontrollers, Pis, and Arduinos.

No one forced you to answer anything, if it's such a "waste of time" for you then you shouldn't have commented.

 

I think it depends on the temperament of the learner. There is an astounding amount of information out there, but you have to *want* to find it. I have found and purchased some great books on basic electronics (the "Make:" books are really nice, for example), found some top-notch instructional videos on YouTube and especially iTunes U, and actually enjoy reading through forums such as this one.

I've seen too many YouTube videos on electronics (and other subjects) where the person didn't know what they were talking about. I think most of those people have an elevated self image and don't know enough to be embarrassed by what they're posting. Without having knowledge and experience, how can you tell if the information you're finding is valid?

 

There are probably hundreds of texts, videos and websites already devoted to teaching these topics. Many of these resources are free.

It sounds like you have no prior experience in teaching, writing texts or preparing instructional videos. So I'm wondering why you think you can be competitive with existing products. It would be a huge project, and to what end?

 

I've seen too many YouTube videos on electronics (and other subjects) where the person didn't know what they were talking about. I think most of those people have an elevated self image and don't know enough to be embarrassed by what they're posting. Without having knowledge and experience, how can you tell if the information you're finding is valid?

I've seen a lot of those types of videos too, and the comments are usually a lot of fun to read through (although sometimes depressing as well...)

Your only weapon against this is to watch another one, and another one, and then another one. Find an article, read through threads on forums such as this one. Compile information and find commonalities. For example, when I wanted to build a circuit to interface with my Raspberry Pi, I did an internet search on what I thought I wanted. The first thing I learned was that my terminology was wrong.

After sorting out the right words to search on, I found some great articles and posts in various forums. They pointed me in all sorts of different directions, so I followed the leads that seemed the most concrete and compiled a set of things that it seemed I should know before trying to build the circuit.

Finally, I got to the point where I could read the schematics that people were posting, I understood why I needed a resistor in front of an LED, and why one schematic had the LED as an indicator light in parallel and one had it in series. The more I read and watch, the more concepts I am exposed to, and the more intelligent questions I can ask myself.

Will I ever have the depth of knowledge of someone with a degree in electronics engineering? Probably not. Should I just give up because I can't find a class nearby to sit in and learn from an instructor? Absolutely not - that idea is ridiculous.

The internet today represents a vast subset of human knowledge, and to discount all of it because some bits may be patently wrong is doing yourself a huge disservice.

With a few books and a whole lot of internet, I have built a variety of timing circuits, voltage regulators, and a controller to allow my Raspberry Pi to control RGB LED light strips. It's fun stuff, and apart from almost toasting a timer IC, I haven't damaged anything yet.

I joined this forum because it was consistently near the top of my search results whenever I was researching ideas, concepts, and circuit design. There is a lot of good information here, and I hope just as much open-mindedness.

 

@Lestraveled, why are people on this forum so negative??

You infer that I know nothing about electronics; the truth is you know nothing about me. FYI: I hold a bachelor's degree in electrical engineering, was an IEEE member for many years, and regularly read magazines like Circuit Cellar, Nuts & Volts, and IEEE Spectrum.

There is a pile of difference between someone who completed and engineering degree program and a real engineer. My point is proven by the fact that you would rather talk about or write about learning electronics than designing a project, building a project, fixing a project, optimizing a project.

Yeah, I don't work in the field right now (I'm an entrepreneur) so I may be a bit rusty on some things, but your inference is wrong.

I hire engineers regularly. I try to avoid people with a BS in engineering that have only read about a lot of things. These "readers" or wannabes are the ones who answer the question, "where do you see yourself in 5 years". Rather than saying, I want to be leading a project or chief designer, or engineering manager, - they say, I would like to move to the business side, or, I would like to be an entrepreneur. This whole thread smells of another attempt at an entrepreneuring effort - one that is about to fail.
[/quote]

The resource I wish to create is more than a forum; I'm looking to create a logically organized, step by step resource consisting of written material and videos to teach basic electronics to help people get start. So, the resource may start with basic tools and color code, and near the end talk about using microcontrollers, Pis, and Arduinos.

Then get your ass in gear and get it done. why ask all the fantasy questions? Are they for some type of focus group or business plan so you can find someone to fund your next three years of "entrepreneuring"? By the way, there are at least a hundred logically organized, step by step resources of written materials and videos to teach basic electronics to people that want to get a start. Spend some time looking or actually pretending you are one of those people instead of looking for someone else to fill out our surveys.

No one forced you to answer anything, if it's such a "waste of time" for you then you shouldn't have commented.

No, nobody forced us to answer anything. You would understand why ENGINEERS continue to tell you why this thread is so misguided if you were really an engineer and not just some poor soul with a piece of paper that says "BSEE" on it.

 

The internet today represents a vast subset of human knowledge, and to discount all of it because some bits may be patently wrong is doing yourself a huge disservice.

If you're implying that I don't avail myself of information available on the internet, you're wrong. I also use it for research in areas where I wish to gain expertise.

I joined this forum because it was consistently near the top of my search results whenever I was researching ideas, concepts, and circuit design. There is a lot of good information here, and I hope just as much open-mindedness.

Anyone who has spent decades in a career and interfaced with countless thousands of people should be entitled to their opinions and to be opinionated.

 

The internet is the greatest man made thing ever.

Knowledge is now available to all. You only have to pay for sheepskin, not knowledge.

It came just in time to save us from our educators.

Perfect.

 

There is a pile of difference between someone who completed and engineering degree program and a real engineer. My point is proven by the fact that you would rather talk about or write about learning electronics than designing a project, building a project, fixing a project, optimizing a project.



I hire engineers regularly. I try to avoid people with a BS in engineering that have only read about a lot of things. These "readers" or wannabes are the ones who answer the question, "where do you see yourself in 5 years". Rather than saying, I want to be leading a project or chief designer, or engineering manager, - they say, I would like to move to the business side, or, I would like to be an entrepreneur. This whole thread smells of another attempt at an entrepreneuring effort - one that is about to fail.

Then get your ass in gear and get it done. why ask all the fantasy questions? Are they for some type of focus group or business plan so you can find someone to fund your next three years of "entrepreneuring"? By the way, there are at least a hundred logically organized, step by step resources of written materials and videos to teach basic electronics to people that want to get a start. Spend some time looking or actually pretending you are one of those people instead of looking for someone else to fill out our surveys.


No, nobody forced us to answer anything. You would understand why ENGINEERS continue to tell you why this thread is so misguided if you were really an engineer and not just some poor soul with a piece of paper that says "BSEE" on it.[/QUOTE]

OK, so diplomacy has failed and I've had it with your bullsh*t jerkish attitude.

First, you know nothing about what projects I've built or haven't built so piss off.

Second, I don't WANT to be an entrepreneur, I AM an entrepreneur. I had a job as an engineer at one point and choose to quit because I knew I was entrepreneurial at heart. I'll wave to you as I fly above the glass ceiling you're trapped behind at your job, or when your job gets out-sourced to India I'll send you a sympathy card. And if I worked under you I'd definitely make it my life's mission to find another job.

Third, I'm asking the "fantasy" questions because creating such a resource would take a lot of my time up, if there is no interest in a product then there is no need to create it. This how smart business people avoid the "failure" you predicted.

Fourth, I'm glad that there are a hundred similar resources already; this proves that that there is demand, so I'm less likely to "fail."

Maybe if you had some semblance of a life, you'd find other things to do with your time other than hide behind a screen and harass random strangers, Big Man.

Anyway, time to kill this thread, too much negativity.

To those who actually tried to help, thank you. To those who didn't, read the last 2 words of the second sentence of this post. Bye.

 

Second, I don't WANT to be an entrepreneur, I AM an entrepreneur.

Apparently your Entrepreneuring skills are like your engineering skills - not quite good enough. Bad entrepreneurs keep referring to themselves as an entrepreneur. Good entrepreneurs soon call themselves business owners because the stopped 'starting a business' and started 'operating a business'.

Third, I'm asking the "fantasy" questions because creating such a resource would take a lot of my time up, if there is no interest in a product then there is no need to create it. This how smart business people avoid the "failure" you predicted.

Smart business people should not try to avoid failure if the idea is bad. If the idea is bad, they should fail quickly and move onto better ideas. latching onto bad ideas and hoping to avoid failure by continuously asking fantasy questions is bad business.

Fourth, I'm glad that there are a hundred similar resources already; this proves that that there is demand, so I'm less likely to "fail."

Agreed. There is demand. Unfortunately, the hundrends that beat you to the punch have diluted demand so much that each site is making about $3500/year on google ads. Simple economic laws - if the barriers to entry are too low, - Oops, never mind, you are the entrepreneur you should already know that. But wait, you don't seem to know that - what a paradox!

Anyway, time to kill this thread, too much negativity.

You have a weak personality if you think any of that was negativity, that was reality.

 

Per the TS's request, this thread is being closed.