Branch circuit surge arrester

That surge arrester Phase and Neutral is connected to that 3x4mm² wire
But what's about ground terminal ?, it's better to use 1x25mm² wire ?
I don't know exactly what this says, BUT if you return the surge directly to the ground rod, the building reference won;t change.
The building reference does change relative to say 50m away, but not to itself.

It's best to return the suppression to the N-G bond especially if it's a gas discharge tube.

let's say that you had daisy chained outlets up the side of the building and lightning strikes the middle of the string.
Anything that is on the path to ground will have it's ground reference raised.

In an external strike, supression should go to the ground-N bond. If that reference moves relative to it;'s surroundings your OK. It won't change the building's reference.
 

Thread Starter

meowsoft

Joined Feb 27, 2021
607
I don't know exactly what this says, BUT if you return the surge directly to the ground rod, the building reference won;t change.
The building reference does change relative to say 50m away, but not to itself.

It's best to return the suppression to the N-G bond especially if it's a gas discharge tube.

let's say that you had daisy chained outlets up the side of the building and lightning strikes the middle of the string.
Anything that is on the path to ground will have it's ground reference raised.

In an external strike, supression should go to the ground-N bond. If that reference moves relative to it;'s surroundings your OK. It won't change the building's reference.
Nearly right... but not right... surge arrester ground screw terminal is not connected directly to ground rods but connected directly to center earth terminal

Normal Circuit Pathway
Ground rod -> Center Earth Terminal -> MDP's Earth Terminal

Lightning Rod Pathway
Ground rod -> Center Earth Terminal -> Lightning Rod Arrester

This Case Pathway
Ground Rod -> Center Earth Terminal -> Surge Arrester
 

Thread Starter

meowsoft

Joined Feb 27, 2021
607
Nearly right... but not right... surge arrester ground screw terminal is not connected directly to ground rods but connected directly to center earth terminal

Normal Circuit Pathway
Ground rod -> Center Earth Terminal -> MDP's Earth Terminal

Lightning Rod Pathway
Ground rod -> Center Earth Terminal -> Lightning Rod Arrester

This Case Pathway
Ground Rod -> Center Earth Terminal -> Surge Arrester
Maybe that's clear explanation that you can understand
 

Thread Starter

meowsoft

Joined Feb 27, 2021
607
Nearly right... but not right... surge arrester ground screw terminal is not connected directly to ground rods but connected directly to center earth terminal

Normal Circuit Pathway
Ground rod -> Center Earth Terminal -> MDP's Earth Terminal

Lightning Rod Pathway
Ground rod -> Center Earth Terminal -> Lightning Rod Arrester

This Case Pathway
Ground Rod -> Center Earth Terminal -> Surge Arrester
Ground rod definition, is multiple ground rods that's connected to Center Earth Terminal
 

Thread Starter

meowsoft

Joined Feb 27, 2021
607
Nearly right... but not right... surge arrester ground screw terminal is not connected directly to ground rods but connected directly to center earth terminal

Normal Circuit Pathway
Ground rod -> Center Earth Terminal -> MDP's Earth Terminal

Lightning Rod Pathway
Ground rod -> Center Earth Terminal -> Lightning Rod Arrester

This Case Pathway
Ground Rod -> Center Earth Terminal -> Surge Arrester
@Yaakov is that's good idea ?, also in US is connecting ground wire between branch circuit is good idea nor violating code ?, not daisy chain, all branch circuit is connected to MDP's Earth Terminal, but to make sure there is no equipotential between branch circuit, so... some ground wire at branch circuit is connected together, also some branch circuit is connected to Central Earth Terminal directly (but also connected to MDP's earth panel), for make sure very good ground system is installed and tightened connection to ground..., I think that's very clear explanation... thanks...
 

Thread Starter

meowsoft

Joined Feb 27, 2021
607
I don't know exactly what this says, BUT if you return the surge directly to the ground rod, the building reference won;t change.
The building reference does change relative to say 50m away, but not to itself.

It's best to return the suppression to the N-G bond especially if it's a gas discharge tube.

let's say that you had daisy chained outlets up the side of the building and lightning strikes the middle of the string.
Anything that is on the path to ground will have it's ground reference raised.

In an external strike, supression should go to the ground-N bond. If that reference moves relative to it;'s surroundings your OK. It won't change the building's reference.
Read my explanation please...
 
We have isolated ground receptacles. See https://www.thespruce.com/what-are-isolated-ground-receptacles-1152789\\

Usually used in some settings where the ground terminates at the MDP. The boxes now are usually plastic.

Outlets in a home are daisy-chained, do during a fault the ground potentials could differ along the daisy chain.

An issue that have seen multiple times is 1/2 the 120 VAC or 60 VAC appearing on a ground terminal relative to neutral.
This is easy explained with this

1619717232954.png

picture. Note the two right most caps. That's a voltage divider using the leakage current, IF the ground isn't there.
 

Thread Starter

meowsoft

Joined Feb 27, 2021
607
We have isolated ground receptacles. See https://www.thespruce.com/what-are-isolated-ground-receptacles-1152789\\

Usually used in some settings where the ground terminates at the MDP. The boxes now are usually plastic.

Outlets in a home are daisy-chained, do during a fault the ground potentials could differ along the daisy chain.

An issue that have seen multiple times is 1/2 the 120 VAC or 60 VAC appearing on a ground terminal relative to neutral.
This is easy explained with this

View attachment 237111

picture. Note the two right most caps. That's a voltage divider using the leakage current, IF the ground isn't there.
NO DAISY CHAIN
 
I don;t think you want a "mesh topology". In the US, anyway the NEC has a concept of a detached structure where you might locate a sub-panel. When the structure is "detached", one should add another ground rod to ground.

The grounds and neutrals are still separated at the sub panel. They connect only at the MDP.

==

In terms of surge suppressers, Schneider Electric has gobbled up everybody. Just like tte (AMP etc). The company is so big, the parts are a piece of dust. Like Dannahar corp with Fluke and Tektronics and Keithley. HP/Agilent/keysight went the other way. They broke up into manageable pieces.

Analog devices gobbled up precision monolithics and Linear technology because their IP combined was worth more than apart.

In terms of Whole House suppressors, I think there is better stuff. Warranty of connected devices is what you really want to look at.

APC makes UPS's and surge suppressors. They do have a warranty, but I don't like the quality. They are plastic. They crack. A thermal fuse protects the surge components, not the equipment.

Tripplite doesn't know what they are doing either. I plan to do a review on ETO at some point. They can't design a medical grade outlet strip that's reverse polarity protected correctly. Breakers in the line and Neutral are the same value. Their quality control is lacking. I took the cover off one I bought and not all of the wires were welded to the case. The reason for taking it apart was to see if the covers can be reversed - they can be. They replaced the strip. While I was at it, I checked the breaker sizes and they were the same value.
 

Thread Starter

meowsoft

Joined Feb 27, 2021
607
I don;t think you want a "mesh topology". In the US, anyway the NEC has a concept of a detached structure where you might locate a sub-panel. When the structure is "detached", one should add another ground rod to ground.

The grounds and neutrals are still separated at the sub panel. They connect only at the MDP.

==

In terms of surge suppressers, Schneider Electric has gobbled up everybody. Just like tte (AMP etc). The company is so big, the parts are a piece of dust. Like Dannahar corp with Fluke and Tektronics and Keithley. HP/Agilent/keysight went the other way. They broke up into manageable pieces.

Analog devices gobbled up precision monolithics and Linear technology because their IP combined was worth more than apart.

In terms of Whole House suppressors, I think there is better stuff. Warranty of connected devices is what you really want to look at.

APC makes UPS's and surge suppressors. They do have a warranty, but I don't like the quality. They are plastic. They crack. A thermal fuse protects the surge components, not the equipment.

Tripplite doesn't know what they are doing either. I plan to do a review on ETO at some point. They can't design a medical grade outlet strip that's reverse polarity protected correctly. Breakers in the line and Neutral are the same value. Their quality control is lacking. I took the cover off one I bought and not all of the wires were welded to the case. The reason for taking it apart was to see if the covers can be reversed - they can be. They replaced the strip. While I was at it, I checked the breaker sizes and they were the same value.
You still not understand my answer... first, all ground rods is connected together... second, all I mean sub-panel isn't normal sub-panel, branch circuit example : bedroom 1, bedroom 2, living room 1, living room 2, kitchen 1, kitchen 2, garden north, garden south, if in US normally they have only one circuit breaker and all is in one panel, even 2 watt lamp, circuit branch protection is same with US main service panel, surge arrester, mcb, rccb, third, not really mesh topology... all is still connected in one central point
 

Thread Starter

meowsoft

Joined Feb 27, 2021
607
Example :
Circuit branch 1, Garden North
Load : 2x 12w lamp
Protection : 2amp MCB, 30mA RCCB, 300mA RCCB, 90kA surge arrester, fuse for surge arrester, fuse for double MCB protection
Circuit branch 2, Living Room North
Load : 50w television, 30w DVD player, 16a max outlet
Protection : 10amp MCB, 30mA RCCB, 300mA RCCB, 90kA surge arrester, fuse for surge arrester, fuse for double MCB protection
 

Thread Starter

meowsoft

Joined Feb 27, 2021
607
Example :
Circuit branch 1, Garden North
Load : 2x 12w lamp
Protection : 2amp MCB, 30mA RCCB, 300mA RCCB, 90kA surge arrester, fuse for surge arrester, fuse for double MCB protection
Circuit branch 2, Living Room North
Load : 50w television, 30w DVD player, 16a max outlet
Protection : 10amp MCB, 30mA RCCB, 300mA RCCB, 90kA surge arrester, fuse for surge arrester, fuse for double MCB protection
They all have individual panel, because I was very obsessive with electricity and electronics, and all branch circuit panel is centralized in one MDP (100cm x 180cm x 50cm free standing panel, like substation MVMDP but is LVMDP)
 

Thread Starter

meowsoft

Joined Feb 27, 2021
607
They all have individual panel, because I was very obsessive with electricity and electronics, and all branch circuit panel is centralized in one MDP (100cm x 180cm x 50cm free standing panel, like substation MVMDP but is LVMDP)
And also have MVMDP with 20kV incoming and it's still functional, my home is former factory
 
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