If Boeing can't come up with a fix for MCAS, all the airlines who purchased this lemon of an aircraft might want to check the prices for scrap aluminum - because they might end up having 100s of tons of it to sell to the local recycling businesses.

Or maybe Boeing could have a buyback for the metal like the beverage industry has for aluminum can recycling.

 

If Boeing can't come up with a fix for MCAS, all the airlines who purchased this lemon of an aircraft might want to check the prices for scrap aluminum - because they might end up having 100s of tons of it to sell to the local recycling businesses.

Or maybe Boeing could have a buyback for the metal like the beverage industry has for aluminum can recycling.

Fever dreams again?

 

The latest article from Design News Magazine:

https://www.designnews.com/electron...460732?ADTRK=UBM&elq_mid=8499&elq_cid=1082446

The Verge has a pretty good one also:

https://www.theverge.com/2019/5/2/18518176/boeing-737-max-crash-problems-human-error-mcas-faa

 

The Verge has a pretty good one also:

https://www.theverge.com/2019/5/2/18518176/boeing-737-max-crash-problems-human-error-mcas-faa

Bingo:

What about the runaway stabilizer checklist?

“Stab trim cut-out, stab trim cut-out,” he called. Getachew concurred, and Mohammed flipped the switches to disable MCAS.

On a strange way, the 737 Max’s story is less about what did happen and more about what didn’t. Nobody did anything criminal. Nobody did anything malicious. Nobody did anything wrong, in a strictly technical sense.

 

Bingo:

What about the runaway stabilizer checklist?

“Stab trim cut-out, stab trim cut-out,” he called. Getachew concurred, and Mohammed flipped the switches to disable MCAS.

On a strange way, the 737 Max’s story is less about what did happen and more about what didn’t. Nobody did anything criminal. Nobody did anything malicious. Nobody did anything wrong, in a strictly technical sense.

That is why I like this article, it points out a different kind of failure - the process was followed, the process is flawed. Technically noone is at fault, but there were multiple opportunities to avoid this situation, it just was never "required".

 

That is why I like this article, it points out a different kind of failure - the process was followed, the process is flawed. Technically noone is at fault, but there were multiple opportunities to avoid this situation, it just was never "required".

Yes, it means we are human with that fantastic human ability of not being able to exactly predict future events.

 

Yes, it means we are human with that fantastic human ability of not being able to exactly predict future events.

Working in healthcare, i see these chains of events all the time. Often obvious things are present that no one corrects because they are still following the approved process. That is until a disaster strikes. Question - why does it take a catastrofic failure to overhaul systems? Human nature? Lazyness? Greed?

 

Question - why does it take a catastrofic failure to overhaul systems? Human nature? Lazyness? Greed?

All of the above... plus lack of foresight

 

Working in healthcare, i see these chains of events all the time. Often obvious things are present that no one corrects because they are still following the approved process. That is until a disaster strikes. Question - why does it take a catastrofic failure to overhaul systems? Human nature? Lazyness? Greed?

Our complex systems and rules are constantly being bombarded with chaos. Whole galaxies get blown up in this universe from out of control events. Why do we think we are 'special' to the forces of nature? The fact it keeps happening should give you a hint that we are not.

 

Our complex systems and rules are constantly being bombarded with chaos. Whole galaxies get blown up in this universe from out of control events. Why do we think we are 'special' to the forces of nature? The fact it keeps happening should give you a hint that we are not.

I never said we were special. I am very much against that concept. We want too much change too fast. It is going to cost us sooner rather than later. My favorite creatures are sharks. They have not changed since the times of dinasaurs and they are top predator of the seas. Guess how much we know about them? My guess is they will outlive us.

 

Back to 737 crashes.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...vivor-landing-guantanamo-bay-cuba/1100290001/

From PPRUNE satire.
"Perhaps it's time to ground the entire B-737 fleet due to inadequate thrust reversers, inadequate brakes, just barely subsonic approach speeds, inability to fly in rain, inadequate windshield (windscreen) wipers, no turn signals and required fitment of bald tires due to main landing gear not being covered in retracted position."

 

Back to 737 crashes.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...vivor-landing-guantanamo-bay-cuba/1100290001/

From PPRUNE satire.
"Perhaps it's time to ground the entire B-737 fleet due to inadequate thrust reversers, inadequate brakes, just barely subsonic approach speeds, inability to fly in rain, inadequate windshield (windscreen) wipers, no turn signals and required fitment of bald tires due to main landing gear not being covered in retracted position."

There is something I am missing in this discussion... I am starting to see that no lessons will be learned from this disaster and that is sad for everyone

 

There is something I am missing in this discussion... I am starting to see that no lessons will be learned from this disaster and that is sad for everyone

What lesson is there to learned? Since Thomas Etholen Selfridge there have been deaths in airplanes.

Lessons are learned in school, in life there are actions and consequences.

 

What lesson is there to learned? Since Thomas Etholen Selfridge there have been deaths in airplanes.
View attachment 176610
Lessons are learned in school, in life there are actions and consequences.

Ok, Boeing rushed an airplane design and is suffering the consequences. The problem is that I have not seen them admit what actually went wrong and on how many levels. It seems to me more fuss made when Volkswagen faked the emission data, yet no one was killed because of their actions.

Since you will say the two cannot be compared, yes they can. Both were deliberate decisions made in the face of catching up to/outdoing increasing competition...

If you stop learning once you are out of school, i wish you luck. That is a very odd thing to say on this forum. All life does is teaches us lessons. Some are harsher than others. That has been my experience.

 

Ok, Boeing rushed an airplane design and is suffering the consequences. The problem is that I have not seen them admit what actually went wrong and on how many levels. It seems to me more fuss made when Volkswagen faked the emission data, yet no one was killed because of their actions.

Since you will say the two cannot be compared, yes they can. Both were deliberate decisions made in the face of catching up to/outdoing increasing competition...

If you stop learning once you are out of school, i wish you luck. That is a very odd thing to say on this forum. All life does is teaches us lessons. Some are harsher than others. That has been my experience.

The difference is VW tried to put one over on the Government. They really don't like someone else like VW getting in on their game.

Notice I didn't say stop learning, I said lessons as to say, a 'teaching' moment. Businesses operate in the 'real world' where the only lesson you might get is the same one the red headed step-child gets with a belt.

Notice that Airbus has said practically nothing about Boeing 737 problems as they know better than to tempt fate.

 

Airbus is facing same issues. Some search reveals a number of software related accidents they had in the last 5 years.

https://www.google.ca/amp/s/mobile.reuters.com/article/amp/idUSKBN1D819P

 

Well, the Russians don't have problems with software but they do have problems with airplanes.
https://www.usatoday.com/story/news...oscow-jet-landing-caught-on-video/1112076001/

https://www.flightradar24.com/data/flights/su1492#20671283

Yes, I'd fly in one, as the last flight outta hot war zone.

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/05/business/boeing-737-max-warning-light.html

In essence, that meant a safety feature that Boeing thought was standard was actually a premium add-on.

 

Boeing is going to have trouble getting out of this one.
https://www.npr.org/2019/05/06/7205...ensor-problem-before-plane-crash-in-indonesia

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/05/05/business/boeing-737-max-warning-light.html

Blame the bean-counters. It sure as hell wasn't an engineer that decided something like that.

The lack of the light didn't stop the pilots from executing the run-away trim procedure correctly in Africa. MCAS is just one of many causes for run-away trim errors. They all have the same solution, hit the STAB TRIM cutout switches and fly manually. This was a practiced memory item for all 737 pilots long before the MAX existed. Sadly the pilots in Africa switched the cutout switches back on (in violation of flight procedures) and thus allowed MCAS to trim the nose into the ground at 500mph. Maybe they turned the cut-outs back on in order to use electric drive to correct the trim because of high aerodynamic pressures. Unfortunately, they didn't immediately re-activate the cut-out switches once trimmed.